Let's talk aluminum baseball bats

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"Weapon of opportunity" is not a legal concept and is instead typically used to describe the modus operandi of psychopaths who kill without provocation (and thus no premeditation in weapon selection). Defense is justified by the amount used not the method chosen.

The fear of weapon perception, within reason, is mostly unjustified. The only way "premeditation" enters the picture as an issue is where you basically lured the victim to you to kill them, which would require a pretty extraordinary set of facts to substantiate (and, if they can even make that case out, your priority should be living differently rather than bat or not).

In addition, Prosecutors are forbidden from prejudicing the jury with irrelevant information not tied to the substantive charge... or attempting to confuse the legal issue. As there's no legal difference between a sword or bat, if the prosecutor tries to do it, he can be subject to discipline, disbarred, and end up granting you mistrial (where they're unlikely to retry you) or appeal.

Perception's largest role is in the discretion of the LEOs and Prosecutor, who out of personal prejudice or discretion may elect to charge you or not. If it "smells" wrong to them, they might arrest/charge when another weapon would otherwise cause them to let you go even if technically identical under the law. But when you're at the level of a baseball bat, you're so far along the force continuum that it's unlikely they're going to turn a blind eye. This'll vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction and the circumstances, of course, but it's a narrow and unpredictable distinction not worth betting on. You do not have a presumptively valid use of a baseball bat as a weapon while swords or "bad" guns are presumptively invalid.

The law doesn't work that way and if it did we'd basically be living in a country where justice was meted out by dice roll. Results are far more consistent than that... and realistically, in either case, if the prosecutor doesn't exonerate you, it'll come down to a mechanical plea or settlement (if civil). There might be the odd case that is extraordinarily unjust or abnormal for that rare person who decides to gamble with a jury that isn't properly instructed... but those are so rare and would be like assuming every criminal case ended up like OJs and every civil case was like multi-million dollar suit against dry cleaners for one missing pair of pants. And you can't structure your life around those outcomes otherwise you'd never leave your house in anything less than Class III armor and drive to work in an Abrams.
 
Remember to keep a ball and glove with the bat, especially in your car.

Perhaps I'm missing something, but what would be the point of the ball and glove? Is there some law against carrying a bat in your car? Also, it seems to me that if a person followed the quoted advice and was forced to use the bat for self defense, he would be in much worse shape when evidence surfaced that he did not play baseball, but carried the ball and glove for the sole purpose of misleading police officers than if he had carried the bat with no ball and glove. (This, of course, is not applicable if you play baseball.)
 
I think Paladin's reasoning is very persuasive, by and large; thanks for the excellent responses Paladin and Carl and others.

There is no doubt that blows to the head can be and are quite deadly, and that a bat is a deadly weapon. Yes, it MAY be used as a "less-lethal" weapon if the user chooses to so employ it by avoiding blows to the head. But a gun MAY also be used in the same way as a club - either are still lethal/deadly weapons.

I want one just in case the ammo runs out or gun jams! :)
 
I'd carry a large flashlight before I'd carry a bat. Everyone should have a big maglite in their car or by their nightstand/front door.
 
Smith - yes, in some cases there is in fact a law. Specifically, I seem to recall in South Carolina that a baseball bat possessed without a glove/ball (or other baseball gear) is subject to confiscation.

anyone checked out Cold Steel Cutlery's polyurethane bats?
 
Paladin, you make a well stated argument that to a certain degree I just happen to disagree with. I mean, I don't think you are wrong, but I don't know that you are entirely right. Well, whatever.
 
I haven't held one but saw them advertised. I think Cold Steel has a poly bat called the Brooklyn Crusher or something like that. It's not for baseball.
 
Let's avoid suggesting "Thunderdome" silliness.

Darn it, I was just gearing up to deliver my chainsaw hypothesis!

The bat I bought that I think would be handy for self-defense

Is a bat being considered instead of a non-lethal alternative such as a chemical deterrent? I'd certainly grab a bat if that was the only thing at hand, but a bat sure puts me up close & in the kill zone if my assailant has some hidden weaponry. A chemical deterrent at least has some reach. (I know, there is no guarantee it will be effective.)

I guess the way I'd think about a modified bat is along the lines of keeping your custom defense handloads in your carry weapon vs. factory ones. Great until you shoot someone and end up in civil court long after being cleared in criminal court.

Plaintiff's Attorney -

"I point to Mr. X at the defendant's table. Not content with professionally loaded, commercial material, he concocted homemade ammunition to wound, to mame, TO DESTROY......! We cannot make the plaintiff whole after the vicious & inappropriate attack upon his person but we can make him more comfortable......"

(Insert bat w/ nails in place of handloads above.)
 
There is no doubt that blows to the head can be and are quite deadly, and that a bat is a deadly weapon. Yes, it MAY be used as a "less-lethal" weapon if the user chooses to so employ it by avoiding blows to the head. But a gun MAY also be used in the same way as a club - either are still lethal/deadly weapons.
A club blow to the arm or ribs probably isn't lethal. A shot, anywhere is potentially lethal, due to bleeding. Although it won't stop someone quickly, a shot to the foot is still legally considered lethal force. Now maybe if you're immobilized and someone is running at you from 100 yards with a knife, and you know you can hit the foot and make a quick second shot if that doesn't work, I could see that. If you have to use a firearm, though, you probably need a stop right now.
 
I really wanted to focus in this thread primarily on the ERGONOMICs of bats/clubs - what LENGTHs and WEIGHTs do you find the best tradeoff of feel/speed to weight/devastation?'

That's where I intended to go with this thread. Any thoughts on that subject? But it's been a good discussion nevertheless.
 
Going back to the first page about the argument against putting nails into a baseball bat. Question: How would that compare to using a purpose-built morning star in a defensive scenario? The two devices are effectively the same, but the morning star was designed and constructed with the spikes in place. Would its use be any more or less defensible in a court of law than a modified nail bat?


edit; sorry Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow, for the slight derailment revisitation. :eek:
 
I would say speed is more important...in baseball what enables you to hit the ball farther is bat speed, not the weight. I could take a bat that weighs a 1000 lbs and tap you with it, but it won't do anything. If I take a bat that weighs 1 lb and hit you with it as hard as I can, it is going to do some serious damage.
I say pick the lightest bat that gives you good reach. longer the better.
 
A long bat slows the movements just as badly as a heavy one. Short and light would be my choices....

And personal pref. would have me swingin' a wooden one. No "magic" in aluminum. No soul. LOL. :)

I'd choose a bat in the 24-28" range, wooden, with a grip fat enough for my meat hooks. I could then adjust the weight (and thus speed) to my personal wishes by counterboring the fat end. If I needed it heavier, I'd bore and cast lead.

I won't do either, tho. A decent stick will serve me just fine, if it comes to hittin'..

"Kid! Git Daddy his hittin' stick!"

J
 
It's not quite true that a long bat slows movement- or rather, it's true, but deceptive. A longer lever exerts more leverage.

John
 
<raises hand>

Are we to the part: Aluminum versus Wood in this thread yet?

Put me down for wood if we are. Aluminum just sounds wrong when it hits stuff.

*blue-n-wood baby, blue-n-wood*

ROFL! :D

Jason
 
It's not quite true that a long bat slows movement- or rather, it's true, but deceptive. A longer lever exerts more leverage.

Why do people keep saying leverage? It's really not true at all. Now, if you hold a bat with one hand way at the end, and your other hand 6" from the striking end, then yes, you would have a ton of actual leverage. However, gripping a bat normally (for a swing, rather than a thrust), you have almost no leverage at all. Try pushing a heavy object using the bat, with your hands in different places. You need to space them wide apart to get any leverage at all.

A longer bat, for the same weight, gives you more speed, potentially. For a given weight and moment of inertia, the angular velocity of a bat swing will be the same. And for a given angular velocity, the speed at the tip will be greater for a longer bat.
 
Why do people keep saying leverage? It's really not true at all. Now, if you hold a bat with one hand way at the end, and your other hand 6" from the striking end, then yes, you would have a ton of actual leverage. However, gripping a bat normally (for a swing, rather than a thrust), you have almost no leverage at all. Try pushing a heavy object using the bat, with your hands in different places. You need to space them wide apart to get any leverage at all.

A longer bat, for the same weight, gives you more speed, potentially. For a given weight and moment of inertia, the angular velocity of a bat swing will be the same. And for a given angular velocity, the speed at the tip will be greater for a longer bat.

Third class lever. Since energy is mass times velocity squared, that means a baseball bat drastically multiplies deliverable energy on a target. This happens through leverage.
 
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