Load data interchangeable w/same bullet weight?

[VanGoghComplex]

Hi all! After many responses to my last thread about where to look for good .357 loading components, I've settled on Missouri Bullet Co's Action! Hi-Tek coated 158gr LSWCs and Winchester 296. I've got 100 once-fired shells sized, primed and ready to charge for my workup from the minimum, but...

The only load data I've found for this powder specifies 158gr Hornady XTPs. As the bullets are the same weight, can I use this published data verbatim? (It's 15.0 to 16.7 grains.)

 

[tyeo098]

Cast Lead will generally use less powder than jacketed bullets.
And the data here: http://handloads.com/loaddata/defau...&Weight=158&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=
Indicates as such

Lead 14.5 gr Win 296 1,560 fps Src=Winchester
Suggested starting load: 13.1 gr

Pressure: 38,000 CUP

 

[ATLDave]

Not necessarily. Bullet profile can significantly change things like available powder/case capacity for a given COAL or bearing surface. Similar bullet types of similar profile... you can probably do it. Dissimilar bullet types or different profile (including depth/shape of cavity for HPs)... potentially problematic, depending on the load and components and gun.

 

[Hondo 60]

Sometimes ...

I know, I know,
that's not the answer you wanted.

Lead bullets are NOT the same as jacketed.
Plated bullets are in between.

Berry's Plated bullets advises using low to mid jacketed data
But not to exceed 1200 fps in a pistol caliber.

Now, a 158 gr Hornady Jacketed Hollow Point (JHP) can use the same data as a Sierra 158 gr JHP.

Look to the powder manufacturers for FREE online data.

Just checked - W296 is NOT a good powder for lead bullets.
If it were, Hodgdon/Winchester would have data for it online.

 

[VanGoghComplex]

Okay, so it's sounding like it's a good deal that I only bought a sampler pack of the Hi-Tek coated bullets. Missouri Bullet Company claims that the variety I ordered are "suitable for magnum velocities" and that they perform like plated bullets.

I'm aware that "of course they say that, they're trying to sell you bullets!" But, I'd like to put their claims to the test.

Is there any risk, other than lead fouling and bad accuracy, to working from the published 15gr on these coated bullets? I'm not aiming for a really hot load, but I was planning to load a spectrum of them from bottom to top and try them sequentially.

 

[243winxb]

The main problem is the W296 powder. Note the pressure difference between starting & the Hodgdon maximum. When pressure is low, this powder may produce a bullet stuck in the barrel. The coating on the bullets reduces friction, lowering pressure. A magnum primer must be used. Finding the correct amount of powder should be somewhere between start & maximum. I would load 3 at the starting powder charge and test fire. Work up 3/10 gr at a time. W296 works for me in 44mag with cast bullets. Just watch for pressure spikes as you approach Maximun.

 

[VanGoghComplex]

Just to clarify, 243; start at 15gr? Or the lower 13.1?

 

[Walkalong]

Use lead data for coated bullets. They can take all the .357 Magnum has to give. Plenty of good stout lead .357 data out there. I am shooting the SNS version of that bullet with 14.5 Grs 2400. Nice.

I'm not aiming for a really hot load, but I was planning to load a spectrum of them from bottom to top and try them sequentially.

W296 isn't the ticket for downloading the .357. For midrange loads you need another powder.

 

[ljnowell]

Use lead data for coated bullets. They can take all the .357 Magnum has to give. Plenty of good stout lead .357 data out there. I am shooting the SNS version of that bullet with 14.5 Grs 2400. Nice.
W296 isn't the ticket for downloading the .357. For midrange loads you need another powder.

14.5 grains of 2400 with a 158 grain lead bullet is a classic load, for a reason too, it flat out shoots.

 

[243winxb]

I would start at 15. Like Walkalong said, W296 does not download well.

 

[Skinnedknuckles]

I have loaded both MBC and ACME coated 158gr SWC bullets, and X-Treme 158gr plated HP bullets over 15.1gr H110. No leading in either a Taurus Model 66 and a Rossi Model 92. I haven't chronographed the coated bullets but the plated bullets averaged 1725 fps from the Rossi and 1200 fps from the Taurus.

I've also loaded MBC's 180gr coated bullet over 13.1gr H110 with excellent results and velocities just slightly below HSM's Bear Load gas checked 180gr lead bullets (1550 fps from the Rossi and 1175 fps from the Taurus). So, yes, H110 (W296) works fine with coated lead bullets, and gas checked lead bullets, to some pretty impressive velocities.

Remember, these are loads developed and determined safe in MY guns. You should develop your own safe loads for your guns.

 

[VanGoghComplex]

Alright guys, 15 to start it is.

 

[CraigC]

Just checked - W296 is NOT a good powder for lead bullets.

Well that is completely untrue. 296/H110 have always been a staple among cast bullet revolver shooters. Look at .44Mag and .45Colt Ruger only data at Hodgdon's, you'll see that the highest cast bullet velocities were recorded with H110/296 and Lil Gun.

The only issue with interchanging cast and jacketed data, for the same weight bullet, would be A) trying to match cast velocity with jacketed bullets and B) pushing cast bullets too fast for their hardness or C) substituting LBT's for jacketed bullets will result in much lower pressures and velocities due to more of the bullet in front of the crimp groove. Cast bullets with jacketed data will just yield more velocity and slightly less pressure. So no worries there. I would see absolutely no problem starting at 15.0gr and working up to maximum.

 

[VanGoghComplex]

Just ran my first test batch at the range last night.

Win296 is now my go-to powder, and Missouri Bullet Company's Action! Hi-Tek coated bullets are my new favorite. I found I liked 15.5gn.

Thank-you for the help, everyone!

 

[mdi]

Glad you found your load! Just a thought; W296 is the same powder as H110 and should not be loaded lower than starting loads from your manual (erratic ignition/pressures, pressure spikes).

Also seems like a lot of responders may have missed the "Hi-Tek coated bullets" part of your OP. I normally use lead data for coated/PCed bullets I shoot (38/357, .44 Mag., 45 ACP, 9mm, 303 British, 7.62x54r, and a few .308 Win...).

 

[Dudedog]

Win296 is now my go-to powder, and Missouri Bullet Company's Action! Hi-Tek coated bullets are my new favorite. I found I liked 15.5gn.

MBC makes good bullets. Make sure you use the THR 5% discount when ordering. (BDS has the discount code in his PIF thread)