Loading 405 Win with Unique or Trail Boss

[Bullseye]

I have a theory that Unique and Trail Boss should be use-able in loading 300 grain bullets in this case.
I recently have been shooting a 45-70 with a 405 gr cast flat nose bullet 13 gr Trail Boss and have used 12 gr Unique in 45-70 with a 325 gr cast RNHP.

Both are strong lever guns, both are straight wall cartridges.
I like shooting these both as engine block busters, don't get me wrong, but it is nice to plink and get a mild shooting day in too.

I don't know if I can shoot jacketed bullets with Trail Boss, I don't see why not.
Looking at my case here, I blacked out the volume a seated bullet would take up. I am thinking that I could fill that up to that level with TB and weigh and use 70% of that available space with TB.
Has anyone tried this?

I would also like to know what amount of Unique I could use. I have no idea but am thinking that it might be possible.

Now I know that the rule is ... if it isn't in a manual there is good reason for it but perhaps it is in a book someplace or somebody who knows what they are talking about can tell me if it can be done.
I am certainly NOT suggesting this.

 

[Don McDowell]

The velocity with trailboss is a bit to slow to stabilize the bullets very well in the 14 twist of the 405. I believe Hogdons web data shows some data for that stuff, but seriously it's best left for mousephart loads in handguns.
Unique has been used in the 405 ever since they were both pups, it works ok, but 2400,4227,4198 and 5744 work much better.
If recoil is your concern try the Hogdons youth load data for 4895, got some of the best accuracy with the hornady 300 gr bulllets I ever got using that data.
The long discontinued RX 12 powder gives the best velocity and accuracy in my 405, and especially with the North Fork 300 gr ss bullets.

 

[Bullseye]

I am talking about a Miruko Winchester 1895 lever gun and it has 1/10 twist rate?.
I just found the pdf where I got this idea and won't be shooting past 100 yds anyway.

http://www.imrpowder.com/PDF/Trail-Boss-data.pdf

I have loaded up 40 gr of IMR 4198 with pointed Hornady 300 gr soft points and have others loaded with 54.5 and 55 gr RX15 and some Barnes 300 gr HP over 54.5 RX15 but I was just wanting to have a little relaxing shooting with this rifle and get the feel for it. I do have maybe 3/4 lb left of the IMR 4198 to load them up later ... ta have.

 

[Don McDowell]

Those have a 1 in 14 twist. I've been shooting mine since about 2000, when I was able to snag one of the first of the 270's they recalled from the warehouses and rebarreled.
If you can get some 4895 try the 60% rule from Hogdon. As I said before that was the load that gave the best accuracy with either of the Hornady bullets in my rifle, and the recoil was quite manageable.
Trailboss will give you pie plate sized groups and not much better, velocity needs to stay up around 1600 or so and that stuff just don't quite get it done.
For when things really need thumped RX 12 and the northfork get that job done in fine fashion

 

[Skinnedknuckles]

This web site may be of interest for "gallery" loads in rifles.

http://www.gmdr.com/lever/pistolpowi.htm

 

[Bullseye]

So I filled the case shown in the first post with Trail Boss to the bottom of the blackend portion where I used a magic marker. I weighed that amount and came up with exactly 8 grains of Trail Boss.
That seems pretty skimpy and 70% of that equals 5.6 grains of Trail Boss under a 300 gr jacketed Hornady Soft Point.
I would not be the least nervous trying 6.5 gr load out, which is above a starting load ( by my calculations )
but well under a full 8 gr load.

gdmr site had nothing specific for a 405 Win cartridge that I could find but it would be my guess that I could use Unique and have some idea of a powder load but I am not going to post it because somebody may think it is good data.
I'll wait to find out more for Unique.

I very well may give this Trail Boss a "shot".
It seems pretty light and as long as I don't crimp the bullet there certainly shouldn't be any pressure problems. Just hope it makes it out of the barrel.
I know a lead bullet would be better but Trail Boss does get shot out of bottle necked cases like 22-250 and 270 Win.
I will report my findings when I get done.
Any strong suggestions as to why I should NOT give this a try ... I'm all ears. Thanks

 

[Crashbox]

I shoot my Ruger No. 1-H in .405 Winchester more than any other rifle, but I've never loaded anything remotely resembling a gnat whisper round. My standard load is about 58.0 grains of IMR 4320 under a 300-grain pill, definitely not for the timid shooter. Hodgdon's Benchmark will produce up to 2404 FPS or approximately 10% more velocity than a factory 2200 FPS load.

Sorry I cannot be of more help with reduced loads for this fine nostalgic cartridge, but I may investigate this matter further since I love to research.

 

[Shanghai McCoy]

Trail Boss is a bulky powder but light. I use 12-14 grains in my 45/70 and 8 grains in the 32 Special. All with cast bullets though.
Just heed the warning to not compress your powder in the case.

 

[rcmodel]

Rifle Magazine did a test on Trail Boss back when it first came out.
70% starting loads gave dismal accuracy in every caliber tested.

As I recall, the bottom line was, you might as well start out to the base of the bullet and call it good if you don't want to waste powder, primers, and bullets.

(And no, unlike most all other powders, you can't get in pressure la-la land doing it.)

But that's all from memory, so don't believe me.

rc

 

[Don McDowell]

This first picture is a test I ran at the request of Paco Kelly several years back, using the lyman bullet and 25 grs of 2400, fired at 50 yds from sitting postion.


This second picture is what my 95 is capable of when loaded full throttle. Using 57 grs of Rx12, and the 300 gr Northfork SS bullet velocity is 2350. This group fired at 100 yds using the One Ragged Hole sight sitting with crosssticks.

I don't have any pictures of groups fired with trail boss, my camera lense won't go that wide angle. Trailboss is great for what it was introduced for, but despite glowing claims of accuracy in a rifle, I've yet to see it from any of my rifles, nor have I seen anything verifiable from others.

 

[joem1945]

The info on loading Trail Boss in your OP is correct per the factory. Trail Boss is made to fill the case and gives a better burn IMHO. It's a light weight powder. I use 16.5 gr in my 11.75 Danish rifle with a 405 gr cast lead. I have shot 300 gr JHP's in it.