Loads for "equivalent" bullets?
- Thread starter jski
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small town life
Member
Not would be bearing surface and/or length. Both willact differently! Seating depth of the same (not overall length) will be asclose tosame amount of powder as possible.
tightgroup tiger
Member
Gold Dots are Thick plate, plated bullets, they are softer then jacketed bullets.
You can find load data for Gold Dots here.
As far as powder charge, if I didn't have any, I would use JHP load data for Gold Dots, just make sure you're seating the base of the bullets at the same depth in the case, the nose profiles are different so you probably can't use the same die settings to seat them.
I'm also thinking....not.....but would like clarification that I think might clear things up for both of us.
I started loading for 9mm earlier this year, and now have 5 different 124 gr JHP bullets, and have found the length of all 5 bullets to be different. So if you loaded them to same COAL, where the base ends up is all over the place. From all I have been able to find, when it comes to load data and amount of powder you use, the internal volume of the case under the bullet matters more than the COAL. So better plan to make load data usable is to load the base of a bullet to same depth as where the bullet used in load data ends up, and let the nose run wild. As to how to go about doing that, some measurement taking is needed and some adding and subtracting once you know.
Option B, an alternative to doing the math.......and one I have never seen this one mentioned.......is to insert a spacer of a calculated length, and use that to set seating die to seat bullets firm on that. Puts the loaded bullet to same depth......bullet nose goes where it goes.
I started loading for 9mm earlier this year, and now have 5 different 124 gr JHP bullets, and have found the length of all 5 bullets to be different. So if you loaded them to same COAL, where the base ends up is all over the place. From all I have been able to find, when it comes to load data and amount of powder you use, the internal volume of the case under the bullet matters more than the COAL. So better plan to make load data usable is to load the base of a bullet to same depth as where the bullet used in load data ends up, and let the nose run wild. As to how to go about doing that, some measurement taking is needed and some adding and subtracting once you know.
Option B, an alternative to doing the math.......and one I have never seen this one mentioned.......is to insert a spacer of a calculated length, and use that to set seating die to seat bullets firm on that. Puts the loaded bullet to same depth......bullet nose goes where it goes.
rfwobbly
Member
The XTP is a jacketed bullet. The Gold Dot is a plated bullet, but the plating is so thick that it may as well be jacketed.
So your answer is YES.... But with the following caveats...
1) First, look around for a Speer manual if you intend to shoot GD bullets on a regular basis.
2) If you cannot do suggestion #1, then begin your load testing for 100gr Gold Dots at the listed Starting Load for 100gr XTP and work up in small increments.
Understanding the Concept
* As long as the powder, bullet weight AND bullet material basically agree, starting over at the Starting Load makes any differences in primers, barrel length or bullet bearing area work themselves out.
* In such instances, using a chronograph would definitely add a layer of safety. Use the velocity shown for Max Load in the XTP data as your "do not exceed" maximum velocity for the Gold Dot.
* The focus for everything you change is, as always, the Chamber Pressure. The new bullet won't remove your fingers or blind you, but the Chamber Pressure might. Thus, everything we do in reloading is to control Chamber Pressure. We cannot directly measure Chamber Pressure in the field, but we can gain valuable insight by knowing the bullet's velocity. We can assume that bullets of the same weight and velocity have been pushed by approximately the same Chamber Pressure.
Hope this helps.
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Charlie98
Member
That... ^^^
In your scenario, OP, you are lucky that you have data available for both bullets... so there shouldn't be any guesswork. Occasionally, you will run into a bullet that you can't find direct data for, and you will have to work up to it. When this happens, try to find data with a bullet that mimics what you are trying to load.
Oddly enough, I had to do the same thing last night... I had some 200grn RMR PRN bullets I was trying to load, but couldn't find any data for SportPistol and that profile of bullet. I had to do some measuring, and wound up using 200grn SWC data, backed up with 200grn HP data... adjusted to give me a good COL with the RN bullet.
jmorris
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There is probably data out there the two share.
I suppose to start, they are not both JHP’s, even if they were they both wouldn’t be the same dimensionally and length is going to directly effect remaining case volume at any given seating depth. Like these 4 bullets, 2 different weights but 4 different lengths.
There are lots of variables that go into data collection and I doubt they all even do it the same, certainly don’t complete tests under the exact same conditions, that said, they do often get data that crosses over at some point.
Using the two sources above for data using two completely different bullets, it looks like the Bullseye data for both agree from 4.5-5.0 gn. However, the Unique data lacks any data ”overlap” and don’t forget that’s also with different OAL’s because of length differences between the projectiles.
Charlie98
Member
That's what I've found to be the biggest monkey wrench in carrying data over to a different bullet... the COL.
mcb
Member
Assuming you can't find the data already published for the bullet of interest and assuming they are the same weight and similar construction; I would compensate for the difference in length and start low and work up to the desired velocity. The difference between a Gold Dot and a XTP are only going to make a meaningful difference if you are pushing things to the max. So if you back off and work up to your desired velocity those differences will show themselves and you can adjust accordingly.
In my own experience I found switching bullets when they were the same weight and similar construction rarely made a large difference. With my USPSA loads for 40S&W if it was a 180gr FMJ/CMJ then the same load would make Major and it didn't seem to matter if is was a brass jacket, copper jacket, round shoulder flat point, or truncated cone, CMJ or FMJ.
In my own experience I found switching bullets when they were the same weight and similar construction rarely made a large difference. With my USPSA loads for 40S&W if it was a 180gr FMJ/CMJ then the same load would make Major and it didn't seem to matter if is was a brass jacket, copper jacket, round shoulder flat point, or truncated cone, CMJ or FMJ.
There is a load recommendation in this article for 100 gr Speer Gold Dot bullets using True Blue powder and I was thinking of using it for 100 gr Hornady XTP bullets.
.32 H&R Magnum (Pet Loads)
ballman6711
Member
I'm confused a bit. Your first post seems to ask if you can use XTP data for a Gold Dot. Your last post is asking if you can use the Gold Dot data for an XTP.
Are you loading a Gold Dot or an XTP?
chris
IWAC
Member
IIrc,the XTP bullets are said to be "stout" projectiles, jacketed, and need a minimum of 850 fps to expand. A load for them, if not loaded to " full snort" levels should be good for other jacketed and plated bullets of the same weight.
IIRC, Berry's Bullets recommends using "J" word loading data for its plated bullets, not to exceed~1200 fps.
Speer uses the same product # bullet in its .38 +P SB loads and also the 357 Magnum SB ammo. Reasonable loads from any good manual(s) should put right where you want to be.
Actually I want to used the Gold Dot load recommendation (usinf True Blue) for the XTP bullet.
AJC1
Member
The western manuals are free for downloading, no guessing needed... or extrapolation, oe interpretation
DustyRusty
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Really good info!
The differnce in barrel length, between the loading manuals test gun, and your gun, is another factor to factor in.
The differnce in barrel length, between the loading manuals test gun, and your gun, is another factor to factor in.
ballman6711
Member
I don't know enough about the .32 to know if the .32 H&R can be used in a .327 LCR. But I've read the article you linked, and have a couple of observations that you may want to consider.
1) "There are many additional .32-caliber bullet designs. Many will seat to notably different overall lengths, changing the powder capacity of the .32 H&R. Unless the seating depth and overall cartridge lengths are exactly the same as listed here, bullets of the same weight should not be substituted with this data, or pressures can change significantly."
This ^^^ is a direct quote from the article you linked.
2) I did not see anywhere in the article where they recommended a True Blue load with any bullet weight.
3) The 100gr TB data listed is from 5.0gr to 6.5gr with the Speer 100gr Gold Dot.
4) Hornady's 10th edition lists 3.5gr to 4.7gr using TB and their 100gr XTP bullet, part # 32070.
5) Hodgdon has load data for TB and the 100gr XTP.
In the interest of keeping a fellow reloader safe, I would recommend not using the Gold Dot data in the linked article with an XTP bullet.
chris
1) "There are many additional .32-caliber bullet designs. Many will seat to notably different overall lengths, changing the powder capacity of the .32 H&R. Unless the seating depth and overall cartridge lengths are exactly the same as listed here, bullets of the same weight should not be substituted with this data, or pressures can change significantly."
This ^^^ is a direct quote from the article you linked.
2) I did not see anywhere in the article where they recommended a True Blue load with any bullet weight.
3) The 100gr TB data listed is from 5.0gr to 6.5gr with the Speer 100gr Gold Dot.
4) Hornady's 10th edition lists 3.5gr to 4.7gr using TB and their 100gr XTP bullet, part # 32070.
5) Hodgdon has load data for TB and the 100gr XTP.
In the interest of keeping a fellow reloader safe, I would recommend not using the Gold Dot data in the linked article with an XTP bullet.
chris
Does it have a recommendation for True Blue for a 100 gr XTP bullet ?
Helpful information, thanks
It’s on their website
jmorris
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What load did you wind up settling with using true blue and the 85 grain XTP you were using in this thread?
Hot loads for .32 H&R Magnum
I just got a .327 LCR and am focusing on the .32 H&R as the Goldilocks .32 cartridge. Consequently, I’m looking for the best recipe for hot .32 H&R loads. To that end, I’ve been focusing on True Blue as a powder because of it relatively fast burn rate. Looking at the reload data from RamShot...
www.thehighroad.org
AJC1
Member
6.5 gr of True Blue
ballman6711
Member
This data is for the .32 H&R, not the .327 Mag.
As always, verify for yourself in case I made a typo.
chris
