M1 30-06 Garand vs. .30 Carbine

[longdayjake]

the rifle is a bit bulky, difficult to scope, and finicky to load for.

Now the truth comes out... You're weak, can't see, and against 4895. No wonder you don't like the Garand.

On a more serious note, I own 15 other rifles including an m1a NM, 3 ar15s (one of which is a 6.5 grendel), and an sks or two but the Garand still remains my favorite semi auto weapon to shoot and carry around. It may feel bulky when carrying it around but it feels so good when you bring it up to your shoulder and squeeze one off.

 

[Maverick223]

Now the truth comes out... You're weak, can't see, and against 4895. No wonder you don't like the Garand.

Exactly. I really can't see, but the M1s aperture does pretty well for me (at close range anyway).

 

[Kleanbore]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushmaster1313
M1 30-06 Garand vs. .30 Carbine

Who got which, why and when.

What type of punch does the carbine deliver?

Usually, officers and "rear echelon" people (who would be support troops not primarily involved in actual fighting) got the carbine while infantry and marines and other frontline personnel got the Garand.

Tommygunn nailed it.

My dad was an NCO in the USAAF on Okinawa in WWII. He had a carbine.

I do not remember when M-1 Carbines first became available to civilians. I came across a couple of men shooting turtles from a bridge with one in Mississippi in 1958 or 1959. I've always suspected that it had been stolen.

In 1960 (I think) Guns Magazine (I think) had an article on using the M-1 Carbine to hunt javelinas in Texas. At that time the guns were not generally available, IIRC.

I wanted one when I was a kid (light weight, low recoil, semi-auto, neat) but never got one.

 

[Deaf Smith]

Read "Shots Fired in Anger' by Col. John George. He was a Lt. on Guadalcanal and Merrill’s Marauders veteran (as a Captain.) He felt the M1 Carbine AND the Garand were ace weapons. He was in several battles and used the M1 Carbine to shot his way out of traps. It's an excellent book on weapontry, ours and the Japanese.

 

[bushmaster1313]

Great posts!

 

[Gelgoog]

M1 carbines are by far my favorite rifle ever made...however the price of ammo is a huge turnoff. It used to be fairly cheap to shoot them now .30 carbine is just as expensive as .30-06 so with that...get a Garand.

If the M1 carbine is ever rechambered or .30 carbine gets more reasonably priced then I might just pick one up again.

 

[Maverick223]

M1 carbines are by far my favorite rifle ever made...however the price of ammo is a huge turnoff.

Have to agree with that. I really hope that other carbines will be produced in the same round, thus reducing the price of ammo (though it isn't ridiculously priced here...about $25-30.00/50rnds). Besides it is a great carbine cartridge, we could use more carbines in this chambering (rather than a pistol cartridge).

 

[USSR]

If the M1 carbine is ever rechambered or .30 carbine gets more reasonably priced then I might just pick one up again.

How does as cheap as .22 rimfire sound?

Don

 

[61chalk]

Both are great rifles, an as others have said, two very different rifles.
I've had a Carbine years ago...very fun. I am somehow addicted to the
Garands, for many reasons. I love the feel, how they shoot, easy to load,
the power of the 30/06, history...I have one Garand, a HRA that is scoped,
scoping is very easy with S/K mount from Fulton Armory. And then theres
the PING thing. I love working with the wood an refinishing them also. I can't
deer hunt with it here, but plan on doing some groundhog an coyote hunting.

 

[Old Time Hunter]

I have both...DO NOT GET the M1 Carbine!

First, you will find that one magazine is not enough, then you will need higher capacity mags, then you will have to start reloading your own 'cause you can't afford thousands of rounds even of the less expensive 30 carbine ammo. Then you will start casting your own, like Don does....

So do NOT get the M1 Carbine...unless you want to find the easiest gun to tote, easiest to shoot, easiest to tear down, and it is kind of cute too.

 

[Maverick223]

I have both...DO NOT GET the M1 Carbine! [...] So do NOT get the M1 Carbine...unless you want to find the easiest gun to tote, easiest to shoot, easiest to tear down, and it is kind of cute too.

OTH, you must really hate the M1 Carbine.

 

[nwilliams]

Buy one of each, that's what I did

Almost correct Inland M1 Carbine and all correct IHC M1 Garand. I bought the M1 Carbine and then about a month later I picked up the Garand.

Love em both equally for different reasons.

 

[FMJMIKE]

I love them equally..............

 

[Quentin]

It's a tough decision, the M1 Garand or M1 Carbine. I like the Garand and love the Carbine but know the Carbine lacks power. Many years ago I worked with a WWII vet who said the carbine nearly killed him in one battle because it was ineffective. He said he had to throw it down and pull out a 1911 to do the job. (Kinda sounds like something Sgt Major Basil Plumley would say!)

Anyway, I don't have either but would love to have both. Problem is I'd rather have an M1A over the Garand and an M4gery over the Carbine. I did get the AR but maybe, someday, maybe, will get a Carbine.

 

[HavelockLEO]

I have four Garands, two in 06' and two in 7.62mm. Wouldnt trade them for anything. When I have the urge to use a Carbine, I got to my folks and borrow my Dad's DCM Inland.
On the practical side of the argument, I'll take John Garands invention over its little brother anytime. And thats from talking to greater men than I'll ever be telling the up and down sides to both weapons.

 

[Maverick223]

I'll take John Garands invention over its little brother anytime.

May not look like it from the outside, but the two are completely unrelated from a design (innards) standpoint. Garand designed the Garand (who woulda' thunk?), and the Carbine was mostly John Moses Browning's design (though David "Marsh" AKA: Carbine Williams and other folks at Winchester helped to finish the preliminary design after JMB expired).

 

[Deaf Smith]

You can get a Lee turrent press and Lee carbine dies for the M1 carbine. I reload my own carbine ammo. Not hard at all. And then get a Ruger 10/22 as the understudy and you have quite a pair!

My 10/22 has a Ramline polymer .22 16 inch barrel and Williams peep sight. Looks very much like my Kahr M1 Carbine (even same push button safety.)

So no need to run low on M1 Carbine ammo or practice.

Deaf

 

[Maverick223]

I reload my own carbine ammo. Not hard at all.

I don't agree at all...I just can't keep up with how much I want to shoot. It is easily loaded for, I don't load for pistol, but I imagine it is similar, the only thing that I find easier to load for is the .45-70Govt. (probably just due to the easier to work with size).

 

[Carl N. Brown]

M1 30-06 Garand vs. .30 Carbine
-------------------------------
Who got which, why and when.
What type of punch does the carbine deliver?

In 1938 a specification was put out for a Light Rifle for troops who would ordinarily not be issued the rifle, for two main reasons: (a) in mechanised warfare, the rear can become the front, with paratroopers, etc. arriving behind the lines, and (b) the only alternative to the rifle was .45 pistol which was not the best general issue choice for most troops. (If you were in a position where you couldn't add a rifle to your combat load, you couldn't add a trench gun or submachinegun either). There were elaborate calculations that mortar crews, ammo carriers, clerks, cooks etc could only carry an extra 5 pounds or so in addition to their regular gear, so that became the design goal of what became the M1 carbine in 1941. Short form on what, why and who on the M1 carbine.

When was 1942 onward. In actual use according to sources like Leatherneck magazine asking US Marines of WWII, the Carbine was often preferred in jungle fighting over the 1928 Thompson (and especially over the M50 Reising) by a lot of Marines. And it began to show up in front line use alongside the M1 Rifle as the war went on. Paratroopers were issued carbines. (My dad was in the Sixth Army Division, fought in New Guinea and Phillipines, and preferred the BAR but would use the M1 Garand if a BAR was not available; he had a low opinion of the carbine and submachinegun, although there were a lot of WWII vets who loved them.)

.30 Carbine 110gr bullet, 1950 fps, 950 ft/lbs energy. The .30-06 fired a heavier bullet at higher velocity for three times the impact energy. .30-06 bullet from an M1 Garand or BAR could shoot through a palm tree trunk that would stop a bullet from a .30 carbine or .45 Thompson. By comparison the venerable civilian .30-30 deer hunting cartridge has twice the energy of the .30 Carbine, or two-thirds the energy of the .30-06.

 

[levallois]

I like both although I lean toward the Garand because i just shoot it well -

I have an unmolested Rock-Ola -



A genuine Inland Paratrooper like my dad used to carry in WWII as a glider-rider - you want light and easy to carry around then this is it.



And an HRA Garand - that I don't have a photo of. I used to have a Springfield and a Winchester but pared it down to just one. There's nothing like being at the range with other Garand shooters sprinkled about and here that ping coming from up and down the line as the clip is ejected - magic!

So, I'm with those that say get both.

John

 

[CZguy]

You really need both.

SA SG,



1943 Underwood

 

[C-grunt]

Kinda related but funny story.

My grandad was in the Army Air Corp as a MP and was stationed on a bomber base somewhere near India during WWII. He told me when they were getting ready to ship out they had to qualify with all the shoulder weapons. Shotgun, Garand, Thompson and the Carbine. Which ever you qualified with you could bring. The only one you couldnt turn down if you qualified with was the Garand.

My grandad didnt like the weight of the rifle so he decided to intentionally mess up his sights so he didnt qualify. Well his Captain caught on to his game because he knew he could shoot and issued him all four guns. Thats on top of his 1911.

 

[levallois]

C-grunt,

That's a great story. My dad was originally issued a Garand but since he was 6 ft tall and weighed 140 pounds soaking wet, he didn't enjoy lugging it around. So when he was promoted to corporal he somehow got a paratrooper carbine. He loved that carbine and spoke kindly about it until he died. Unfortunately, neither of us had the means to buy one before he passed.

I have a question - why did so many Marines carry the carbine in the pacific during WWII? Seems like more enlisted men had them than in Europe. Thanks!

John

 

[Maverick223]

I have a question - why did so many Marines carry the carbine in the pacific during WWII?

Because they were particularly handy for jungle combat (where light weight & speed generally beat power & range).

 

[LibShooter]

Another question:

Does anyone know why the War Department didn't require the carbine be chambered for the .45 ACP? It seems like that would have made the quartermaster's job a lot easier.