MA Police Chief denies permit due to Internet posting.

[SharpsDressedMan]

I hope the arrogance of this chief of police cost the village some serious money. I hope the denied applicant gets a jury, and they award lots of compensatory and punitive damages from the town coffers. I'd like to hear where this goes, so if any THR members nearby get the results, be sure and post them here. I'll bet the attorney for the city is already wishing the chief had kept his tainted attitude SEPARATE from any decision to approve or deny the permit.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

For the record, the OP (Jessie Cohen), is a respected and trusted attorney specializing in MA firearms laws and not one to knowingly or unknowingly spread false or misleading information.

He apparently is one to draw some bizarre conclusions. Just how is it that the first amendment is jeopardy? There is no mention of the applicant having a license to publish or broadcast being rejected.

 

[DocCas]

Double Naught Spy said

He apparently is one to draw some bizarre conclusions. Just how is it that the first amendment is jeopardy? There is no mention of the applicant having a license to publish or broadcast being rejected.

He was denied a CCW license because of his written words published on an internet forum. The 1st amendment doesn't mention publish or broadcast licensing, but does make an unequivocal statement concerning the freedom of speech and of a free press. He was discriminated against because of his speech as published on the internet.

 

[Frank Ettin]

...The 1st amendment ...does make an unequivocal statement concerning the freedom of speech and of a free press....

Actually, it doesn't. It says, "Congress shall make no law ....abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press;...."(emphasis added). It doesn't say that anything you might say will be free of consequences. You may be free to speak, but others are free to either pay attention or not. And others are also free to form opinions about you, your intentions, character, values, or beliefs based on how and what you say.

The core problem is, as others have mentioned, is that in this case the chief of police has discretion. Your intentions, character, values, or beliefs should not be material to his decision. But in a "may issue" state, he has been given power to consider such things. "May issue" should be one of the next things attacked in the courts, assuming that we get a positive ruling on incorporation.

 

[DocCas]

Actually, it does, as your quote clearly says. "...does make an unequivocal statement concerning the freedom of speech and of a free press..." "...abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press..." See?

IMHP a 2nd amendment right cannot be infringed by exercising a 1st amendment right.

 

[Cosmoline]

"May issue" is the problem. It was abandoned by most states because of the systemic abuses it permitted LEO's to get away with. Those who did them favors or drew sufficient water in the community would be given permission, those who did not would not.

 

[Frank Ettin]

...IMHP a 2nd amendment right cannot be infringed by exercising a 1st amendment right....

I've no doubt it's your humble opinion. It just doesn't work that way in real life.

 

[gym]

It's like when these young kids go in for a job, out of college, and the employer pulls up their Facebook or My space profile, "which they all do now, if you are going for a good job". And they see the guy or girl drunk in several photo's, half naked, or otherwise compromised. That's the end of the job application. It may not be legal, but it goes to character. No one is going to trust a person who is dumb enough to allow pictures of themselves "that they put up", to have good judgement. I am not saying that the guy did anything like this, but it shows that what may seem innocent at the time, can come back and bite you later for something completely unrelated. Sometimes you need to play the game in order to get where you need to go.

 

[Lou McGopher]

This is why all the information about me on the internet is nothing but complimentary, and completely fabricated.

 

[atomd]

There was a police chief in Carver, MA that denied EVERY SINGLE PERMIT. Yes, really, every one. She finally quit after receiving multiple complaints about her for that and other issues. It just goes to show how much say they have in the matter. They could probably refuse you for just about anything.

Another note: Having a myspace/online blog/facebook page these days gives your information to people who you might not want having your information. I've spoken to an HR person who said she regularly will put someone's name into google and see what comes up and view their information. Think about it...that college pic of you chugging a beer might not be the best thing to have a potential employer see. Remember what happened to that innocent guy after the Virginia Tech shootings? Pictures of him were used on television...showing him as the murderer.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the chief was correct in denying him the permit.

 

[Erik M]

1. Keep it anonymous!

2. If you are some kind of highly public figure that has differing political opinions than the local law enforcement agency or its chief/captain, don't expect them to help you out in any way.


I would be scared out of my mind if i thought the local police had the ability or the intelligence to moniter my forum posts. Good luck getting throught those proxies gentelmen.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

what were the offending posts? and why if they were/are innocent are they not posted in op?

 

[Full Metal Jacket]

how on earth did this police chief find out about the applicants posts? unless the applicant identified himself to the chief as a member of that forum-no too smart considering how hard permits are to get in that state and they will use any excuse to deny one no matter how lame.

 

[KJS]

inappropriate preoccupation with firearms

They just described the Brady Bunch.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

He was denied a CCW license because of his written words published on an internet forum.

Right, but that does not put his first amendment rights in jeopardy.

IMHP a 2nd amendment right cannot be infringed by exercising a 1st amendment right.

Yeah, it actually can and has in the past. Try exercising your first amendment right to threaten the President of the United States, create child pornography, etc. and see how much trouble your first amendment rights allow you to create for yourself.

 

[Officers'Wife]

IMHP a 2nd amendment right cannot be infringed by exercising a 1st amendment right.

I was taught with rights come responsibilities to exercise those rights in a reasonable manner. I was also taught that Newton applies to social situations as well as physics. My uncle's favorite illustration of the principle went something like this. You have every right to tell a man he is his mother's son and his mother is a dog (edited for content.) You have neither right nor reason to expect him not to knock you on your back. (also edited for content.) Every action has a reaction, it's a fact of life.

Be careful of the words you sling.
Keep them soft and sweet.
For you never know at the end of the day,
Which ones you will have to eat.

 

[Tinpig]

I belong to the NES forum where this all took place. I don't go there often, and don't remember and can't find the posts in question.

It's my understanding from other comments there that this may have been a young poster who made immoderate statements. Not against the law, but ill-advised given the subjective licensing structure here. Apparently it was suggested that he button it up. Apparently he was ratted-out to the Swampscott PD by a forum member, which stinks.

The may-issue situation stinks, also, but until we can change it you can believe that my sons and I tread carefully so as not to jeopardize our carry licenses. In my rural town, treading carefully simply means having a good reputation, a clean record, obeying the law, and staying off the police radar; worthwhile goals for any reason.

No, I do not know the Chief, nor am I connected to anyone at all. I'm just a 65 year-old self-employed carpenter who keeps his head down and minds his own business. I've had a LTC for 44 years, my sons since their 21st birthdays.

I have to say that bitching about the situation accomplishes nothing. I choose to stay in Mass. and fight for gun rights in the state by exercising them, by ownership, voting, and supporting shooting clubs and the legislative efforts of Mass. GOAL.

Tinpig

 

[stevelyn]

To this day, I still cannot undestand how a legislature can write a law that gives the police such discretionary power in these types of matters.

If anything, all the court cases that have come down over the years which affect police procedures should be reason enough to write the laws in such a manner that takes away that discretion.

 

[Elvishead]

I said so, so it's true!

Give it up Internet buddies!