Made in China?

[CWL]

but they sure know how to make stuff cheap (forced labor) and sell it to us.

Forced labor? Believe it or not, there's a labor shortage of qualified workers in China right now. Nobody is forced to work in any factory that manufactures products for exports (note: this is different than China-internal factories which really suck)- HR managers have quite a problem with retention of workers as they skip after payday to better paying companies. $100/month is nothing here in the US, but that's 4X what someone would earn in a village farm. How do I know? Because I can spend 2weeks/month in Asia, China particularly because that's where the action is.

As for anyone here that who claim to never buying China goods, you may as well throw away your computer and get off-of the internet. ALL Computers are made in China nowadays. Dell, HP/CompaQ, Apple, Sony, Toshiba, Sun Micro...

 

[MikeH]

$100/month is nothing here in the US, but that's 4X what someone would earn in a village farm.

You've gotta tell me where in China you can still hire someone at US$100 per month full time. My wife's domestic helper at Shenzhen gets paid more than that.

Last time I checked, the starting pay for a factory worker in the coastal areas is about US$120. It could go as high as $200-300 with experience.

 

[Prince Yamato]

I would never knowingly buy a gun made in COMMUNIST China. My company does business there and it drives me nuts. It also drives me nuts how we have conveniently forgotten that they are still COMMUNIST CHINA.

First off, how many of you have actually been to China? The last time I went was 2001. Trust me, it's communist in name only. The only images of Mao are on cigarette lighters that play Beethoven's "Fur Elise" when you open them. The only thing negative I find about China is their use of squat toilets in public restrooms, but low and behold, they're getting rid of those in time for the 2008 Olympics.

Secondly, I personally have no qualms paying for Chinese goods, especially firearms, which are equal in quality to a comparable American firearm that costs 4-10x as much. If we could still import Norinco non-sporting arms, we could get AR-15s for $300 instead of $900-1200. My "Buy American" pride ends when the American is basically ripping me off and charging me more than the product is worth. And as far as propping up the parent company of North China Industries, the Chinese Army, whatever, they're selling the US guns. They bolster our civilian defensive readiness. It's rather ironic that the Chinese gov't is more willing to supply the American populace with defensive weapons than the American gov't is.

 

[CWL]

Last time I checked, the starting pay for a factory worker in the coastal areas is about US$120. It could go as high as $200-300 with experience.

MikeH,

Where and when did you check? Is it your job to source labor? Like I said, I spend months (cumulative) in China every year. If you really believe this, then PM me and I can relocate your factory so that costs of skilled factory operators are $100/month.

 

[jkingrph]

I would never knowingly buy a gun made in COMMUNIST China. My company does business there and it drives me nuts. It also drives me nuts how we have conveniently forgotten that they are still COMMUNIST CHINA.
__________________
Agreed!!!!

 

[Daemon688]

I'll chime in. The last time I was in China was 2003. All the cities we visited were no different than any other city in America like Chicago, NYC, L.A., etc. Back then the Germans had a virtual monopoly on the car market. There were literally thousands of VWs scooting around. Many people still seem to have this conception of millions of Chinese cyclists. Not so anymore. I remember seeing lines of people trying to get food at McDonalds in Beijing. That's something I would NEVER see here. We'll moan and groan about Chinese made products but I'm sure people in China are doing the same thing about all those multi-national companies trying to get into the Chinese market.

It's capitalism at it's best. If you're only intent on buying American, then you won't have much of anything then. Even then, I bet you would be hard pressed to find 100% of the parts in your car made in the US. It's the world economy, things come from everywhere. My PDA, cell phone, TV, MP3 player all made in China. They work fine and have withstood all the abuse I've dished out and they're actually high quality.

China's aggressive military? When was the last country China invaded? What was the last country the United States invaded? Today, communism isn't a threat, not even in China. Capitalism is changing China, just wait till the old guard finally dies off and the new generation takes its place.

Still China has it's own problems. Pollution, governmental corruption, the gap between rich and poor, etc., etc. By the way, the Chinese are buying American as well. The only place where auto sales look good for american companies is in China.

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070705/BUSINESS01/70705014/1014

 

[MikeH]

The only images of Mao are on cigarette lighters that play Beethoven's "Fur Elise" when you open them.

You forgot all those Great Helmsman fridge magnets and other trinkets available at pretty much all tourist traps.

 

[CWL]

I would never knowingly buy a gun made in COMMUNIST China. My company does business there and it drives me nuts. It also drives me nuts how we have conveniently forgotten that they are still COMMUNIST CHINA.

I paraphrase what G. Gordon Liddy said about communists: the only ones left are in America...

If you want to call China, evil, tyranical, capitalistic, competitive, greedy, human-rights abusers, I'd agree.

 

[quatin]

If I were to actually make my purchase decisions based on my favor of political systems. I would not have bought anything made in USA for the past 7 years.

 

[Average Joe]

The quality control is very poor, making an inferior product, toothpaste? or food laced with bacteria? How soon we forget.

 

[Prince Yamato]

I remember seeing lines of people trying to get food at McDonalds in Beijing

The most authentic looking (looked most like the menu picture) McDonald's cheeseburger I ever had was at the McDonald's in Tianamen Square, by the Forbidden City. Chinese McDonald's also one up us... they serve breakfast food 24 hours a day.

Tell you what folks. You get me an Egg McMuffin fresh at 1pm and a $200 Colt Ar-15 clone brand new in the cosmoline, I'll concede that I'm wrong .

 

[MikeH]

One major difference I should mention between China and the US is that, in the former, these two are actually considered upscale:

 

[Just Jim]

I refuse to buy from China when possible.

jim

 

[trbon8r]

I'd buy an older used gun instead.

 

[.45Guy]

I would never knowingly buy a gun made in COMMUNIST China. My company does business there and it drives me nuts. It also drives me nuts how we have conveniently forgotten that they are still COMMUNIST CHINA.

But bless their little commie hearts for arming us to the teeth. I still remember the gunshows where $99 would bring home a Chi-Com SKS and a case of Norinco steel core ammo. There were literally piles of crates full of SKS's at some tables. It really was a thing of beauty.

 

[Ala Dan]

I did not know that all of the U.S. Army's Black Berets were made in China~!

But, I think that under President Klinton's regime that firearms made in China
can no longer be imported~? That is one reason that Norinco firearms dried
up, for the most part~!

 

[Davo]

I would buy if it was the better purchase to me. The market needs competition, and if I "buy American" when its not the better product...who am I really serving? The "buy American" mentality really helped keep the US auto market strong, didnt it?
I bought a Honda again yesterday because for the most part the American market isnt making what I want.
Btw...in a decade or so out streets may be flooded with Chinese cars.

 

[brentn]

Made in china is usually a bad thing. This is because quality control standards for their factories are usually very poor, becuase the labor is cheap. Manufacturers choose china becuase of cost, thats the only reason, they know that they will have a higher % of defective units, but its still acceptable in their opinion.
These days, quality control on most products made in china is done by the purchaser

I'll tell you one thing, I could care less where its made ONLY if I knew what the quality control was like.
If a gun manufacturer chose china, it would be in their BEST interest to indicate to its consumers the type of quality control done at the factory. They would be specific and in that they would lose a minimal amount of sales. They would defenitly lose sales though, cause sometimes it doesn't matter about quality control, a person may buy it becuase if its made here they are supporting our economy and not another countries. Technically if a product is a good price, and its made in china, you are supporting slave labor lol.
Its funny how many people that do support fair working rights, human rights, are ironically not supporting them becuase they want the cheapest price on a product. But I'm not going to get into that...


Japan has thee best quality control in the world, when something is made their perfection is one of their mottos and it shows. Laptops that were made in japan (nearly all of them back in the mid-late 90's) are still working today and have no failed becuase of this.

However, when things are made here in the country, usually money is not an issue for assembly of a product, becuase minimum wage here is NOT 25 cents an hour like it is in china. Point being, if its made here chances are, and I did mean to say chances, it is made well.

 

[RobTzu]

The reason we have cheap Chinese goods is that the Chinese currency (yuan) is artificially de-valued. This makes exports cheaper and imports more expensive, from China's perspective. China is making cheap (to us) goods at the cost of its own standard of living by making imports more expensive. We see it over here as a flooding of inexpensive goods, they see it as high priced imports. If they let their currency float, Chinese goods would raise in price some 40% (at my last check). Imports (to the chinaman) would see a corresponding drop in price. That would be good for most Chinese... except with the high price of their exports, they would see layoffs in their export oriented factories. The reason that the Chinese government does this is debatable, but its tangible effect is the movement of 1st world factories to its soil, and huge reserves of foreign cash. Which the Chinese put into Treasury Bills, and believe me, the lendor is boss to the debtor and China has a firm grip on one of America's testicles in this regard.

Short answer: I would not buy a Chinese made firearm.

 

[brentn]

ala dan,

norinco is not sold in the states not becuase they are chinese, but becuase of what they were involved in. Goto wikipedia and search norinco, there is good reason as to why they are banned.

 

[.45Guy]

Wasn't it something to do with a shipment of AK's with "da switch?"

 

[brentn]

I think had to do with selling full auto's to the wrong people in the states, I can't remember but it was defenitly shady and illegal.

 

[Oleg Volk]

Last foreign war China fought was against India, and before that against Vietnam. In other words, the US is wasting more of its human and physical capital on military misadventures than "commie" Chinese. China may be totalitarian now, but they are less socialist in many ways than Europe.

 

[PH/CIB]

In my lifetime we have gone from the World's Greatest Lending Nation to the World's Greatest Debtor,,,and China is holding most of that debt. Maybe we should Export our Politicians to China! After the Dog Food and Cat Food scare if I can I try not to buy anything from China or at Wal-Mart.

 

[MikeH]

Last foreign war China fought was against India, and before that against Vietnam.

The Sino-Indian Border Conflict was in 1962, while the Sino–Vietnamese War was in 1979. In between, China also sent troops into North Vietnam to help fight the US.