Manually charging cases on a progressive?

[Crashbox]

I currently have a Hornady LnL AP with a couple of case-activated powder measure assemblies for my .357 and .40, respectively. Unfortunately, flake-type powders such as Herco do not behave well in these powder measures, and I would like to find a way to charge the cases manually at station #2 (a charge verification device such as my RCBS Lock-Out Die *always* follows on my progressive).

Has anyone used charging dies such as the LEE for doing so on a progressive like an LnL AP? If so, what peculiarities did you run into?

I'm sure there will be those who will recommend switching to a powder which meters better, e.g., WSF, but I found at least one of my wheelguns really likes Herco in spite of its drawbacks.

Thank you in advance.

 

[Tom488]

Well, I do something similar on my turret press, where I use a powder-through-expander die, with a funnel fit to it. I took an RCBS powder funnel, the one that comes with several different drop-tube adapters. I turned down the neck of the adapter, so it fit snugly into the PTX die. (chucked the adapter in a cordless drill, and used some 60 grit sandpaper to turn it down).

This results in a powder funnel stuck to the top of the PTX die. Now, you measure out your powder, and at the top of the stroke, dump powder into the funnel.

It sure will slow you down, but should prove to be workable - especially if you follow it up with a powder check in station 3.

I'd still put a little effort into making my case-activated powder measure work a little better with the flake powder. Perhaps taking it apart and polishing the innards of the powder measure? I know that improved the performance of my RCBS Uniflow.

 

[Lost Sheep]

Good for you. I cannot help with your question, but I, too, have more than once considered manually charging cases using my powder-through die instead of a powder measure.

I have read posts by people who manually drop charges on their turret and progressive presses when working up loads. Weigh and charge 5 charges at one weight, then 5 more at the next increment. It simply does not make sense to use a powder measure for that sort of task.

For me, I just don't like mounting and dismounting my powder measure every time I change calibers. My only other choice is to get 6 measures and leave them set on the turrets, but then, I have a storage problem.

If you would like to continue using a powder measure, some designs work better with flake than other designs. I would investigate QM (Quick Measure) for example. It is horribly expensive, but manufactured by a one-man shop who, I bet, will work with you. I have heard only good things about the measure's abilities.

http://quick-measure.com/

Good luck.

Tom488, Lee's powder funnel is already sized to fit snugly in the powder-through die.

Lost Sheep

 

[ljnowell]

If you have the Lee Powder through expander die you can buy the cheap 3 dollar Lee funnel andf it perfectly fits the die.

 

[Crashbox]

Thank you both for the responses.

I will give serious thought to these. And thank you for the QM link, Lost Sheep. I forgot about that one, even though it is made in the same state I live in (albeit on the dry side of the mountains!).

ETA: ljnowell, I do not have the LEE PTX die but it is an option I'm considering.

 

[BYJO4]

I have to disagree with not changing powders. If I could not get my powder measure to drop consistent loads of a given powder, I would find one that will work and give me the same accuracy. There are too many good powders available. The reason I have a progessive is to produce 1 round with each pull of the handle without doing anything but inserting a case and bullet (I don't use case or bullet feeders at this point).

 

[kingmt]

Why not just use a measure that works better. Just pick up a Lee Pro Auto Disk & all will be well.

 

[mdemetz]

This guy sells these on eBay.

 

[cfullgraf]

I routinely separate the resizing process from reloading on my Hornady progressive. I hand prime then as I can prime 100 cases about as fast as filling a primer tube.

That gives me options. Small cases like 380 ACP and 32 ACP I usually charge the cases off the press. I use a powder measure more suited to small charges than the one supplied with the Hornady. I charge 50 or 100 cases or so at a time.

I then seat the bullet and crimp on the Hornady. I prefer to crimp in a separate step so the progressive saves me some handle stroking.

 

[Canuck-IL]

Flake powders in pistol size quantities meter better through the rifle insert - I got tired of Clay's bridging about every 20th shell and just switched to the rifle insert - much more consistent once it's dialed in.
/Bryan

 

[Rmeju]

I ran into your exact problem. I also have an LnL AP, and don't like the powder measure for pistol. For rifle, I use love it, but for pistol I use a Lee powder thru expander die and a Lee (pro!) auto disk powder measure. I love it, and won't ever look back. It's a great value.

FWIW I have a pistol micrometer and rotor for a hornady measure, and I was never very happy with the results. I was a noob to reloading at the time the problems came up, so take that for what it's worth, but I haven't bothered going back because the results with the Lee are so good.

 

[Walkalong]

I use a measure for all pistol reloading, 99% of rifle reloading. If it shoots well, I could care less how it meters. For example, 700X meters poorly, but shoots well.

I have shot plenty of tee tiny groups in rifles using thrown charges.

 

[Crashbox]

I may purchase an RCBS Chargemaster 1500 combo unit and use the LEE charge die/funnel duo to begin with since I could also use the Chargemaster for rifle rounds. I don't load rifle yet but I have a few that I will likely do so. In the future, I may get a Quick Measure for the LnL...

I'll take a closer look at the LEE Pro Auto-Disk.

I normally wouldn't go to such lengths to accomodate such a powder/gun combo, but my SP101 ***REALLY*** likes Herco to push those MBC 140-grain pills.

Thanks y'all for your help on this.

ETA: Incidentally, FWIW my current procedure is to de-cap/ultrasonic clean/dry, then resize/bell/prime, then charge/seat/crimp. I no longer prime on the press as doing so aggravated an ancient on-the-job injury.

 

[Crashbox]

Well, I went ahead and ordered the Chargemaster 1500 along with the LEE charging die and powder funnel. We'll see how it plays out. Maybe I'll even make a YouTube video of it...!

Yes, it will certainly be slower than running the LnL AP normally, but it should be at least somewhat faster than single-staging them.

I'm still going to consider the purchase of a Quick Measure in the future.

Thanks again y'all for your help.

 

[kingmt]

Be careful. That seems like a good way to make a mistake on a progressive. You should really give the pro auto disk a try.

 

[Crashbox]

That's one reason I ALWAYS use a lock-out die or powder cop on my LnL AP, to prevent squibs/double charges; I much prefer the former. Nonetheless, thank you for the warning.

I may give the LEE Auto-disk Pro a closer look as well. It seems like anything made by LEE is affordable to just about anyone, and even if I found it not suitable for my purpose, I reckon it could serve other uses on my bench.

One nice thing about flake powders such as Herco is that a double-charge will practically overflow the case of a .357 Magnum; but a charge verification device, whether mechanical or visual, is still absolutely essential IMO. Both should be employed on a progressive.

 

[Uncle Richard]

Flake powders don't meter the best on my LnL powder drop; however, noticed a variance of ~0.1 grains using Unique. Drove me nuts trying to get it dialed it. Did an experiment to see if there was much of a change in trajectory height over a scale of 1.5 grains in my 40sw over a range of 50 feet. Results showed that there wasn't much of a difference to worry about and that extra effort to be pin-point precise. wasn't worth it.

just my 2cents.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

Uncle Richard nailed it. A tenth or two in either direction will not make a noticeable difference.

 

[Crashbox]

I also usually don't sweat a tenth or two in either direction, but four-tenths is too much for me. If I am using the case-activated powder drop I sincerely doubt I will feel the "crunch" which will likely produce a heavy charge; this is especially true if I opt to resize while running the progressive. We'll see how this method plays out.

I have a five-day weekend coming up, and hopefully the new toys arrive before then...

 

[kingmt]

When running a progressive I have more fell. It takes more pressure & anything out of place stands out.

 

[Uncle Richard]

I also usually don't sweat a tenth or two in either direction, but four-tenths is too much for me. If I am using the case-activated powder drop I sincerely doubt I will feel the "crunch" which will likely produce a heavy charge; this is especially true if I opt to resize while running the progressive. We'll see how this method plays out.

I have a five-day weekend coming up, and hopefully the new toys arrive before then...

Crashbox.,

you shouldn't get that much variation. I would contact Hornady regarding the situation.

However, I have noticed larger variations when first starting to use the powder drop. It needs to get a light coating of powder on the internal walls to achieve good flow. In addition, need to clean the factory oil from the powder measure, if not already done.

 

[Crashbox]

The large variation only seems to occur with flake powders such as the Herco I like to use. Yesterday I loaded 100 rounds with WSF and it was virtually dead-on at 7.0 grains whenever I checked it (with one 6.9), but ball powders do meter well. I think it's just the nature of the powder measure drum design.

It was even worse with the rifle rotor, though. I short-loaded/trickled-up about 300 of them a couple of weeks ago due to the wild variations I was getting with it. Only after I was done did I realize I had the rifle rotor in the thing

 

[A Pause for the Coz]

When you get tired of hand charging those cases on the progressive. Get you self a used RCBS Uniflow and the case activated linkage.
I can attest with my two Uni's it drops Unique and Heco dead on. Less than a 20th of a grain off on ten drops.

I havent tried the Hornady drop but you would think it would work...

 

[DBR]

Dillon makes an adapter to use a manually activated powder measure on a progressive. Give them a call.

I use a Dillon powder measure on my RCBS2000 for flake powders. I like to use Green Dot in 45ACP. It meters very well in the Dillon measure.

 

[Crashbox]

Got the new toys today.

Compared to single-stage loading, it is about 20-25% faster tops. I loaded 400 rounds this evening to test it out and after I tweaked a few of the scale settings, it did go somewhat faster.

Whether I will grow tired of this method remains to be seen- in all likelihood I will, but when those times occur I just think of how it was 150 years ago... it is a workable solution for now. It is nice to have confidence in the charges being dispensed.

And the RCBS Lock-Out Die is an absolute MUST!

...the Chargemaster also gives me "justification" to finally get that .416 Rigby I've wanted...