MI court spanks gun board that denied ccw

[Barbara]

Secretary of State issue. The bill is just sitting there, gathering dust. We shouldn't have 83 sets of rules in a state with shall-issue.

 

[RavenVT100]

You're right. I just looked on the official application form, and you do still have to give permission to access your medical records.

Just one more reason to avoid "mental health professionals" of any kind.

Precisely.

 

[Thin Black Line]

If anyone reading this in MI ever gets denied a permit because of routine
counseling (such as marital counseling that can be required by the court
prior to divorce when there are kids involved), please do not hesitate to
contact me privately and I will set you up with the proper people to
have this addressed.

 

[Barbara]

I'd recommend Jim for any gun issue in Michigan. He knows his stuff about Michigan gun laws.

 

[Trebor]

The question I have is: how do they know to request records for anyone? Is there some centralized database that they search?

I have heard of gun boards asking applicants to bring copies of any relevant medical records to the gun board. The applicant can then request the records from their health care provider.

Presumingly, if an applicant refuses to provide the records (if they exist), that could be cause for denial. Or, if the applicant says there are no relevant records and is lying and is granted the permit the gun board could then say, "We asked and he lied."

This is mainly assumption on my part though based on a few things I've heard and my thinking it through a bit. Don't take it as hard and fast fact.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Also, if any of the "services" are paid for by insurance, there's a paper trail there they can follow.

 

[RavenVT100]

Also, if any of the "services" are paid for by insurance, there's a paper trail there they can follow.

Those records are under the protection of exceptionally strict federal law. A bureaucratic agency is not going to just be able to "dig" through that unless they have a court order. At least that's how I understand it.

 

[DelayedReaction]

Just one more reason to avoid "mental health professionals" of any kind.

I'll admit that there's a lot to the field of mental health that seems wonky, but a lot of people truly have been helped as a result of therapy and/or psychiatry. Having been severaly depressed, I know for a fact that if hadn't seen someone I would be dead right now.

 

[Mixlesplick]

I have heard of gun boards asking applicants to bring copies of any relevant medical records to the gun board. The applicant can then request the records from their health care provider.

I took a refresher course (not required) when I renewed my ccw. One of the instructors said that medical records were routinely being denied to gun boards due to privacy laws. I see the gun boards have figured a way around that.

At least on my renewal I didn't have to go in front of the board again. It was just paperwork to get the renewal in my county.

 

[Stevie-Ray]

The discretion to look objectively at mental-health issues was among the only areas of latitude left for gun boards. VanEssen questioned the need to have the required membership of sheriffs and prosecutors on county gun boards if they were to simply "rubber stamp" permits.

"What is the point of wasting their time?" he asked

I totally agree. Lets quit wasting their time. Let SecState handle it from now on. Cheaper and more efficient that way also.

 

[nextjoe]

I went and looked at the state police annual reports re: ccw applications. Interestingly, for the year ending 6/30/04, Wayne County had zero (0) denials for Mental Health Orders or other mental health history, but they had 47 denials by Licensing Board Decision. According to the report, these decisions are "based on MCL 28.425b(7)(n), which states that issuing a license would be detrimental to the safety of the applicant or to any other individual."

MCL 28.425b(7)(n) reads:

Issuing a license to the applicant to carry a concealed pistol in this state is not detrimental to the safety of the applicant or to any other individual. A determination under this subdivision shall be based on clear and convincing evidence of repeated violations of this act, crimes, personal protection orders or injunctions, or police reports or other clear and convincing evidence of the actions of, or statements of, the applicant that bear directly on the applicant’s ability to carry a concealed pistol.

Sounds like it's sort of a catch-all clause for chronic troublemakers who have avoided conviction on a disqualifying offense.

 

[rms/pa]

that sounds like PA's disqualification for being a "common and habitual drunkard"
cumberland county sherrifs' attitude on this is 3 or more disorderly conduct encounters with alchohol present counts.

rms/pa