Miami Police plan sudden show of force ID checks...

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Drizzt

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Miami Police Take New Tack Against Terror
Nov 28 9:28 PM US/Eastern

By CURT ANDERSON
Associated Press Writer

MIAMI

Miami police announced Monday they will stage random shows of force at hotels, banks and other public places to keep terrorists guessing and remind people to be vigilant.

Deputy Police Chief Frank Fernandez said officers might, for example, surround a bank building, check the IDs of everyone going in and out and hand out leaflets about terror threats.

"This is an in-your-face type of strategy. It's letting the terrorists know we are out there," Fernandez said.

The operations will keep terrorists off guard, Fernandez said. He said al-Qaida and other terrorist groups plot attacks by putting places under surveillance and watching for flaws and patterns in security.

Police Chief John Timoney said there was no specific, credible threat of an imminent terror attack in Miami. But he said the city has repeatedly been mentioned in intelligence reports as a potential target.

Timoney also noted that 14 of the 19 hijackers who took part in the Sept. 11 attacks lived in South Florida at various times and that other alleged terror cells have operated in the area.

Both uniformed and plainclothes police will ride buses and trains, while others will conduct longer-term surveillance operations.

"People are definitely going to notice it," Fernandez said. "We want that shock. We want that awe. But at the same time, we don't want people to feel their rights are being threatened. We need them to be our eyes and ears."

Howard Simon, executive director of ACLU of Florida, said the Miami initiative appears aimed at ensuring that people's rights are not violated.

"What we're dealing with is officers on street patrol, which is more effective and more consistent with the Constitution," Simon said. "We'll have to see how it is implemented."

Mary Ann Viverette, president of the International Association of Chiefs of Police, said the Miami program is similar to those used for years during the holiday season to deter criminals at busy places such as shopping malls.

"You want to make your presence known and that's a great way to do it," said Viverette, police chief in Gaithersburg, Md. "We want people to feel they can go about their normal course of business, but we want them to be aware."

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/11/28/D8E5RPBO5.html
 
Tourists will really like it.
ACLU will like it
Victim advocacy groups will like it
Police supply companies will like it
Some police will like it
Libertarians and constitutionalists are not happy.

Follow the money. Who makes money and who loses? There is more to the story than what we've read.
 
It looks like a very good "strategy" to violate the fifth amanedment of the U.S. Constitution. Since when has it been a legal requirement to have identification? If one is driving one needs a drivers licencse, but what if you are riding the bus or walking? What identification are they looking for (is a buss pass good enough or is a driver's license needed or do they need to see a passport and a birth certificate)?
 
I'm curious what happens when they ask you to show ID and you refuse. Should be an entertaining court case.

Mike
 
(In best Nazi impersonation)

Paaaaperzzz. Ve mussst see all paaaaperz.

I'm with Coronach, I'd probably not produce any ID just to see what happens. Or hand them a Blockbuster card.
 
I'm curious what happens when they ask you to show ID and you refuse. Should be an entertaining court case.

I could swear there was a court case in the recent past where it was found that a person was required to identify themselves to police when asked.
 
Gee officer, I just came down here to make a deposit, so I didn't bring my ID. Yeah, I SUPPOSE I could go back to my house and get it. What... you want to come in? Lemmie see a warrant. No warrant? What's your probable cause then...


Oops... did I just mess with the system?
 
Parker Dean said:
I could swear there was a court case in the recent past where it was found that a person was required to identify themselves to police when asked.
You're probably thinking Hibbard. Not the same thing, though. Hibbard was suspected of beating the woman who was riding in his truck, so it wasn't a random stop it was a legitimate investigation.

That's probably an over-simplification, but that's the jist of it. Search on Hibbard, but I'm not entirely certain it was spelled with two B's.

Also refresh your memory banks regarding "Terry stop"

[EDIT]Hiibel, not Hibbard. Here's a discussion that may not be too biased:
http://straylight.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/03-5554.ZS.html

It appears that the police can ask you to identify yourself (but, depending on state law, may or may not be able to demand positive identification) when conducting a Terry stop. But a Terry stop must be predicated on a reasonable suspicion "based on articulable facts" that a criminal act had taken place or was taking place. The rationale for a Terry stop does not appear to extend to random or focused stops and/or requests for ID in the absence of a crime or a reasonable suspicion of criminal activity.

Yuppers, it's going to be interesting.
 
Standing Wolf said:
Heck, it's probably harder to get a Blockbuster card in some states than a driver's license.

And you need a DL to get a blockbusters card.

Wonder what the penality for non-compliance is?

Brings up some interesting questions, though. What if this was tried in a state where you have a obligation to inform the Police that you are armed in any incounter with them? You would have to comply.
 
It's okay. The War on Some Drugs had gotten stale, anyway. We needed a new excuse to curtail liberty.
 
I agree that it will be very interesting to see how they react when the come across someone without 'up to date papers'.

Assuming we all need photo ID with our CCW licenses, anyone here care to disarm in FL simply to test this? :)
-
 
All kneel in the presence of the Great... the Almighty Chief Timoney:

Chief%20Timoney.jpg

Please continue kneeling as the Almighty Deputy Chief Frank Fernandez is present as well:

fernandez1(2).jpg
 
Paaaaperzzz. Ve mussst see all paaaaperz.

Dang! You beat me to it!

Uhhhh.... Has Miami just pulled this out of their butts, or is there some credible threat that Miami is on the list for? Not that it would matter much anyways as far as I'm concerned. I guess the cops aren't busy enough down there harassing actual criminals. Being a Florida CCW holder I would debate whether or not to refuse to comply (without pc) in this situation or simply show them my CCW License (rather than DL) just to see the look on the cop's face. Is there anyway we can donate Miami to Cuba? :evil:
 
Could somebody please explain how this could possibly deter terrorism or catch a terrorist? :scrutiny:

If Ahmed is wearing a bomb vest and walks toward a bamk that is surrounded by cops checking IDs, what will he do? Wait and come back later? Walk up and blast a bunch of infidel cops? What if he is inside when they surround the place? What are his options then? How is that any better/worse than the alternative?

What possible positive effect could this action have? Any? They must have had something in mind. :confused:
 
Paaaaperzzz. Ve mussst see all paaaaperz.
I believe it's "Papiren, bitte." So, do you guys feel the same urge to "salute" people like this and speak to them in German, or is that just me?
 
Well Gee its good to know that Chief Timoney has completely eliminated crime in Miami Just like he did when he was the chief of police in Philadelphia:rolleyes:

So since all crime has been eliminated the police need something else to do, like harrass lawabiding citizens and tourists at random.

BTW this will have absolutely no effect on terrorism, since there isnt any in sunny Miami to effect. But, hey it sounds good, got Timoney free national press coverage, and maybe it will help him land that next big job in some other lucky city where he will once again eliminate all crime.

The operations will keep terrorists off guard, Fernandez said. He said al-Qaida and other terrorist groups plot attacks by putting places under surveillance and watching for flaws and patterns in security.

Yeah like the fact that there is no net around most skyscrapers to prevent a terrorist from flying a 767 into it, or the fact that Maimi is just full of streets and roads where one could drive a truck bomb.

My guess is that this initiative will last right until they surround a hotel full of tourists (like most hotels in Miami), and folks start complaining to the vistitors bureau or the mayor that they were detained for 30 minutes and could not get out to go shopping or to the beach.

Note also that they are not surrounding any Mosques or strip clubs, and checking IDs
 
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