MN 91/30 purchase; did I screw up?

[CrackerJim]

I've just recently gotten interested enough in older milsurp type rifles to actually put a couple in the "collection" Good excuse to get more guns.

I like bolt actions and thought I would start off with a shooter that happened to have some history with it. One of the local stores has a couple of racks of various bolt action and semi auto older military rifles. I looked at the M44s but didn't want a bayonet and liked the look of the 91/30. Had been doing some reading (this and other forums) that indicated that with iron sights, the 91/30 generally was a good shooter (I reload so looking forward to working loads up).

This gun has a Tula receiver, with Izzy misc parts. The barrel, receiver, sight group has been "painted" and the stock appeared to be refinished with some type of lacquer that was chipping off. Muzzle, bore, chamber area, bolt all looks good. Trigger felt fine. Took the plunge.

Got home a decided to take the forend stock off and do a light oil rubdown of all the metal assuming the black finish would take it. Halfway down the barrel is an area of heavy pitting. I'm no gunsmith but when I see pitting that in some places looks to be 25% of barrel thickness or more, I don't want to shoot it.

No signage in any of the racks had any mention of collector only etc (this gun was obviously not a collector anyway with the refinishing). All the rest of the guns look to be shootable. Much newer guns in the racks as well.

Did I screw up? Should I have taken the forstock off before purchasing? How much take down is appropriate at a gun store when inspecting a firearm?

I've got a K-31 ordered on the web and now I'm wondering if it's safe to purchase sight unseen.

Appreciate your comments.

Jim

 

[DMK]

Halfway down the barrel is an area of heavy pitting. I'm no gunsmith but when I see pitting that in some places looks to be 25% of barrel thickness or more, I don't want to shoot it.

Take it back to your gun store and see what he thinks.

I've got a K-31 ordered on the web and now I'm wondering if it's safe to purchase sight unseen.

If you deal with a reputable vendor, you're pretty much OK. I've purchased more than 20 firearms online with my C&R. I have never had to send one back. I've seen some folks have trouble, but the vast majority of the time, they send it back and the dealer makes good and then some.

 

[offthepaper]

I just last week recieved a MN 91/30 with a lamenated stock from Classic Arms. It's a 1932 Tula in VERY GOOD condition. Did'nt take much to clean her up. Bore is excellent. Took her to therange last week. Had the "sticky bolt after a few shots, so afterwardsI used a 12ga brass brush (dipped in mineral spirits) on a cleaning rod inserted into a drill and ran it slowly into the chamber. This should help, as it cured the same problem with my M44 (which rocks) and is now very smooth. Don't give up on the MN's. they can be pretty good (not great) shooters. Cheap to buy, cheap to feed, lots of history, and who can resist that fireball!
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classicarms.com

 

[MilsurpShooter]

Take it back, show them your area of concern. Hopefully they'll fix the situation for you. As far as the Lacquer, don't chalk it up as a refinish. I've seen some very crude looking 91/30's. Ivan was pumping these things out at a pretty good pace and they weren't made to be pretty, they were made to get the job done before "Ze Germans come" (movie quote, butchered out of context)

Anyhow, yeah pitting that extends into the barrel rather then surface, definately bring it back and see what they'll do. If they brush you off, well, one place not to buy from anymore.

 

[CrackerJim]

Thanks for the replies. I only know of one gunsmith in our area (none of the gun stores have one). I'm hoping to meet him tomorrow and show him the barrel. I plan on taking the gun back to the store (I've bought a used shotgun and 3 new pistols there over the last couple of years) but would like to consult with the gunsmith for educational purposes.

Off the paper;

I'm glad to hear Classic Arms did you right as that's where I hope to get a nice K-31 which I ordered today (they expect another batch in next week as they didn't have any nice ones left in the current batch).

Jay;

I'm not knowledgeable enough to know who did the refinish but I'm certain it has been done. The pitting on the barrel has been finished over with the black paint. Also the metal grommets for the dog collars have "lacquer" on them which flakes off as you handle the gun and the sling moves around; if original, it would have mostly flaked off years ago.

I'll take a picture of the barrel and see if I can post it with comments by the gunsmith for everyone's edification.

Thanks again for your help.

Jim

 

[Langenator]

The lacquer 'refinishing' was likely done at a Red Army arsenal, just before the rifle was put into storage.. And yes, it was that sloppy, and it wouldn't wear off from 50-60 years of being coated in cosmoline and sitting in storage.

And the Stalinist communists were moronic enough to refinish the metal on a badly pitted rifle.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I bought a 91/30 from my local dealer for $96 almost a year ago and it's in outstanding shape. The stock and front are deep and a rich almost chocolate color. It also has the original oil rubbed finish. The barrel is very clean and the twists are clearly defined. Even the rear sight looks almost new, it's black and the numbers are very clear. All in all it's a great rifle and ti's not uncommon to see them in that shape for that price.

I would take it back and see what he will do for you. The barrel being in that shape will probably be a problem you can't overcome.

BTW, you never said what you paid for it???

 

[Cosmoline]

Pitting isn't uncommon at all on Mosins, and it's mostly harmless.

What do you mean the barrel had been painted? The standard Russian bluing is very very dark, almost black. Were the pits covered up with blue?

Also that laquer is probably shellac and is their standard finish.

Does the rifle have a square with a slash through it?

 

[CrackerJim]

I've got an appointment with the gunsmith at lunch time today.

The black could be a type of blueing but am not familiar with it so looks like barbeque heat paint to me. Too me blueing looks more like metal staining whereas this looks like a coating but heavier looking (by a little) that the couple of pistols I have that are parkerized. Hey, I'm learning as I go..... .

Found no marking resembling a square with slash.

The M44s were going for $99 and the few 91/30s are $129. Mausers at $200, Enfields at $125, SKS at $200, AK at $250 and up. The 91/30 rifle is in great shape except for this one area of what I consider deep pitting not visible until the top forestock is removed.

Looking forward to meeting the gunsmith and his opinion.

Jim

 

[offthepaper]

Cosmoline:
"Does the rifle have a square with a slash through it?"
--------------------------------------
What does that mark signify?

 

[Vaarok]

Box with a slash is the soviet arsenal marking for "REWORKED AND REFURBISHED." As for paint and bluing, yeah, they painted 'em, and yeah, they sometimes rearsenaled some sketchy rifles. But a sketchy rifle is better than an axe-handle when you really need a rifle, and the soviets in charge during the refurb program were guys that'd survived WW2 and moved up the ranks.

 

[Cosmoline]

It's the rearsenal mark. I'd be more concerend about pitting on a rifle WITHOUT the mark. Rifles with the mark were strength tested and checked out before being reissued. This one sounds more and more like it might be a parts gun put together by the IMPORTER out of scraps, which is where you can get into dangerous ground.

 

[dstorm1911]

take it back to the shop, it'll probably be alright as a shooter but, if they'll let ya exchange it go for it,

As far as the "laquer" its not its Shelac and can be smothed up easy enough, use a soft rag and some denatured alcohol to re-soften the shelac so that you can smooth it it will re-dry very quikly but minus the blistered chipping etc... ya can also spread out the runs and remove the excess from metal etc...

here is a tip for your next trip, take a 7.62x54 bullet (a loaded cartridge might raise some eyebrows) use it as a barrel gauge to check how tight the bore is, next take a "boresnake" with you, as well as a good light, this way you can clean the bore and inspect its condition, I just added another 1943 Izzy to my 91/30s yesterday its been sitting in a local big 5 for months but I already have a few hundred 91/30s and several 1943s so kept lettin it sit, well I went by yesterday to get a couple walnut stocked K-31s as they are on closeout for $99 and I just hadda take another look at the 43, ran the snake through the bore, it was like new!! oh man and that dark original finish on the wood... the brass ends on the upper handgaurd... well the final straw was its a total all matchin with all IZZY parts and at $75 it hadda come home as well as 4 absolutally perfect non-chewed walnut stocked K-31s............... when milsurp shopping always take your time, have your "inspection kit" with you and really look it over...

I was gettin EX-snipers at regular prices before anyone realized they were mixed in with the standard 91/30s cause I'd take the time to really hand pick my guns