Model 1884 Springfield Trapdoor

[george30]

I was talkin to my parents about guns the other day and they mentioned they had an old gun. I never knew about this gun so I went to check it out and took pictures. From what I've searched on this site and through some links. The serial number of 122k makes it a model 1879 maybe and it was cut down. Could be wrong but I think that would make the trapdoor thats marked 1884 not original to the gun also. Anyone have any knowledge on that?

It was re-blued and refinished but the value of it doesn't matter to me anyways. I think it would be a great shooter. The bore looks really good. Two things though...the hammer won't stay back and the trigger won't reset. I'm gonna talk to some people and see if I can find a historical rifle gunsmith here in Georgia. My regular gunsmith may be able to fix it though. Here are some pics and any thoughts, comments, or knowledge would be very appreciated. Thanks

 

[george30]

My Grandfather got it somewhere up north in the 60s for $5.

 

[Jim Watson]

Sorry, I don't know anybody to recommend but surely the local reenactors have a man. The lock of a Trapdoor is based on (early models WAS) the War Between The States rifle musket's action.

The sear may be broken or the tumbler worn out.
In addition, your hammer spur has been broken off and filed smooth or maybe cut off to reduce snagging in the brush. I'd have it replaced, too.

 

[Hellgate]

It has the Buffington sight of the 1884 but the cavalry carbine stock and cut off steel loop for attaching it to the saddle (laynard?) as in a carbine. I do not know if the carbines of 1884 have the Buffington sight or a ramp sight. My 1879 carbine has a ramp rear sight. I'd say it is a cavalry carbine which is more rare. Mine needed a barrel relining and is a fun shooter now. Check the serial# to be sure it is not a "Custer gun" with a different sight. If so, don't screw with it as it would be too valuable to shoot. Look at the back pages of the Dixie Gun Works catalog for serial # references. Also there is a trapdoor web sight with lots of info (don't know the URL).

 

[Curator]

Cut down 1884 rifle. Hammer appears to have the "ear" shortened. Not much collector value but is sure to be a fun shooter. Your Grand dad got a bargain, even in the 60s these sold for $50. Enjoy, trapdoors are adictive and a joy to shoot once you learn how to make cartridges that they like. Find Spence's book on reloading for the trapdoor Springfield and read it!

 

[george30]

Appreciate it guys. I'm kind of thinking Curator is right. If it was cut down I think it might have been a factory job. It is the standard 22" carbine barrel. I think I read somewhere that they would cut them down to carbine length to sell to civilians.

The barrel on it looks pretty good though. It has some minor pitting but the rifling is still very good. I'm going to contact some of the civil war re-enactors down here and try to find a good gunsmith to take it to. As soon as I saw the action on this gun I could tell it was going to be addictive. I'm already hooked and can't wait to fix it. You just feel the history when you pick up older rifles like this. Gotta love it

One more question...The stock on this thing has a flip to the side compartment on the back for ammunition or barrel cleaning supplies maybe. Anybody know what was stored in the stock? I haven't read anything about it and I can't open it to see if anything is in it.

 

[Jim Watson]

I recall the butt compartment is for a jointed cleaning rod and broken case extractor.

 

[duns]

Collector value or not, all I can say is it is a beautiful looking gun and I wish it were mine!

 

[Hellgate]

It probably needs a new tumbler. Mine needed a replacement that only gave it a two position cock: half cock and full cock. The original had 1/4 (safe), 1/2 & full cock. S&S Firearms is a good source for parts.
http://www.ssfirearms.com/

 

[Bluehawk]

Here's the guy to go to for advise, value and repairs of Trapdoors...Keith Rush in Nevada...he's 83 now and still going strong on collecting, selling and repairing these fine old guns. He has well over 20 years experience with them!
He has a serial number lookup page too for ya on his website.

http://www.trapdoors.com

 

[StrawHat]

Another site with a lot of Trapdoor info.

http://www.trapdoorcollector.com/

You should be able to figure what you have from the descriptions.

Get the book by Spence Wolf for reloading info.

http://www.the45-70book.com/pat

Have fun!

 

[Benmathes]

Springfield

I'd try B&B Outdoors on Holcomb Bridge in Roswell, Ga. ask for Billy or Bobby or Joel the gunsmith- if he can t fix it they will know who can- great guys! Love trapdoors- killed my first deer with one back in the 70's! Hunt that gun!

 

[george30]

Thanks Hellgate and Bluehawk those sites are exactly what I needed. There are about 5 parts that I will most likely need unless they are just gunked up. I knew someone would be from Georgia. I'm going to take it by that place in Roswell as soon as I get a chance Benmathes. Thanks to everyone; I knew this site was the place to post it.

I'm kind of thinking it might actually be a real carbine now. The Buffington rear sight is marked with a C and like I said before it has the standard 22 inch Carbine barrel. Even if it is a cut down rifle I think it's definitely a factory rebuild. It's kind of a bummer that it was refinished and re-blued but at least I won't feel bad shooting it. I would love to take a deer with this gun but it isn't mine yet. It will be left to me eventually but I'm going to fix it and then offer them some money for it now.

 

[FiveStrings]

George, your photo showing the left side of the gun pretty clearly shows the remaining studs for the lanyard attachment/saddle ring. Only the carbines had that feature. Plus the trigger guard also looks correct for the carbine. I think the Cadet Rifles had that same trigger guard, but a cut-down Cadet rifle (one of I which I am pleased to own) would not have had the saddle ring feature. I vote original 1884 Carbine. Very nice gun, hope you are able to get it fixed up the way you want. Once you get it squared away, stick to black powder/cast bullet loads. Modern smokeless .45-70 pressures are going to be too risky for the trapdoor action, plus jacketed bullets tend to be hard on the rifling of those old barrels.

I've been screwing around with black powder reloads all summer with mine, still not satisfied with the accuracy, but I'm pretty sure the problem is me and the loads, not the gun. Although the trigger pull on the thing is something like trying to pull a bag of sacrete across my driveway with my trigger finger. That's just something I'm going to have to get used to, I don't want anyone messing with it, as it is not broken. Once you get yours shooting, get ready to get hooked (and spend some $$$)!!

 

[StrawHat]

One tip to getting trapdoors to shoot is to slug the bore of the rifle and also slug the throat. Many of them are oversized and shooting smaller bullets is just wasting lead and powder.

Trapdoors have been built to a wonderful array of styles and cartridges. The action is not as weak as many suppose. They are not up with Rugers or Mausers but they are plenty strong.

 

[Bluehawk]

The action is not as weak as many suppose. They are not up with Rugers or Mausers but they are plenty strong.

They can certainly use modern smokeless as long as you stick with the trapdoor loads as outlined in the reloading manuals that keeps the loads below 28,000 psi.

The power of the .45-70 was well documented in military trials at Sandy Hook (NY?) where a 500 grain lead bullet was fired...traveled approx. 3,500 yards...came down at a 30-degree angle and penetrated right through 3 1-inch solid oak boards...then buried itself 8 inches in the sand!
That is no slouch of a cartridge!!!!!!!
I love my Marlin 1895 !!!

 

[BHP FAN]

The Carbine load was 55 gr. black powder, fiber filler wads, and a 405 gr. lead bullet.

source: ''Trapdoor Springfield'' by Beinfeld

 

[Speedo66]

The stock compartment that held the cleaning kit will also hold 2 cartridges and makes a convenient place to store the 2 rounds.

 

[RWMC]

If you want to fire your trapdoor, do yourself a favor, and buy the Lee .459 hollow base 405 grain bullet mould. My favorite brand of powder for the original springfield trapdoors is Accurate Arms XMP 5744. Also, a good loading info book for you would be, "Loading for the original springfield rifle and carbine", written by the late Mr. Spence Wolf. Over the years, many people have said the trapdoors had oversized bores, and are not accurate. This was due to people firing ammo in them that had been loaded with .457 diameter bullets. The Springfield rifles and carbines were designed to fire a .459 diameter bullet. I was guilty of making the same accusations; getting "keyholes" at 50 yards using a .457 lead bullet. When I discovered the info on using the .459 bullets from Mr. Wolfs' book, the keyholes disappeared. Buy the book, read it, study it and read it again. Then go out and make the investment in buying the recommended reloading equipment to, "roll your own". The Springfield Trapdoor, or "The Old Warrior", as called by Mr. Wolf, is a fine weapon and is deserving of your time and efforts to make it roar again with accuracy. You won't regret it. I didn't. Shoot straight and have fun!