model 70 vs model 700

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257WM_CDL-SF

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hello all I know they re differences in the 2 like crf vs pf 3 position safety vs 2
Are they any features tht makes 1 superior or more accurate than the other
 
I had to make that same decision a couple of months ago. When I handled the rifles, it was a no-brainer. The new Model 70 featherweight is a really nice rifle. The Remington just isn't as refined, IMHO.
 
Six of one...half dozen of the other.

I would say, which ever one gives you chill bumps and the warm fuzzies!

The law of averages dictates that the nod goes to Winchester.

Both rifles have their merits and assets unique to that particular model. If CRF is important to you...you stand on your head while working the action...Model 70.
Some folks prefer the simple 2 position safety of the Model 700, others insist on the bolt locking, 3 position safety of the Model 70.

Detachable magazine...model 700, assuming your talking the run of the mill Remington, and not a Custom Shop unit, the stocks of the Winchesters, with the exception of the 700 CDL and 700 Mountain Rifle, are much nicer.

Slick action...Winchester. After market modification parts...Remington.
Bluing and finish work...Winchester. Longer barrels in more standard calibers...Remington.

Higher combs...Winchester. More variety of calibers...Remington.

So you see, each has its own pros and cons.

As far as accuracy and durability goes...Remington has had problems in these arenas, but these concerns are being addressed. The Model 70's, the 4 I had a chance to shoot, exhibited accuracy in the 1 MOA neighborhood, all with factory Winchester and Federal ammunition.

And the Model 70's, albeit they are new, have had an impeccable track record as far as performance and durability are concerned.

If I were to purchase one of the two tomorrow...it would be the Winchester Model 70, assuming it was chambered in the caliber I desired.
 
Pre FN M70's had a trigger that could be adjusted more easily, and was less likely than a M700 trigger to get gunked up.
 
I always start with a Remington 700 and then decide if there's any reason to use something else. There usually isn't for me at least. I have to roll my eyes a little when I hear people say that it's an inferior design because it doesn't have a 3-position safety. The marine snipers I was on the range with this summer didn't seem to have any problems with it.

I have heard that Remington's recent production has been more sloppy, but the only problem I have ever had was a few years ago when I bought a new VS in .308 and the extractor tore off a little piece of brass from a cartridge and I had to have a smith dig it out. We both agreed that it was more likely a defective case that broke.

Having said that, if I came across a pre-'64 70 in .308, .270. or 30-06, I would probably do whatever I had to to buy it.
 
The 700s are available with a heavy barrel, the model 70 isn't. (Except for the coyote light, which isn't a heavy barrel in my opinion.)
 
I have to roll my eyes a little when I hear people say that it's an inferior design because it doesn't have a 3-position safety
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Agree...I wouldn't base my decision solely on the 3 position safety, but that is me.

I have heard that Remington's recent production has been more sloppy

Sad...but very true. It is terrible that such a great rifle has become so flawed for no other reason than poor craftsmanship and or quality control!

Good news is, Remington isn't denying it, and are taking measures to correct the problems. Savage, many years ago was an excellent arms manufacturer...years of employees being paid by piece work rules and degrading employee morale led to the company's demise...

Enter Ron Coburn, he cleaned out the bad eggs, restructured the entire process and turned Savage around, with the help of Savages dedicated employees...now Savage builds one of the most accurate, best priced rifles there is.

Lets hope big green follows suite!
 
Well said Uncle Mike. Now more than ever Remmy needs to get straightened out. The FN70 for the same price as most 700's should make Remington take notice. Even the custom shop guns Remmy thinks are worth close to $2000 don't seem to have better fit and finish than the others. Baffles me.

As for the 70 vs 700 debate. I'm in the middle. I own multiples of each and I go back and forth which is better. I like the action design of the M70 but appreciate the simplicity and triggers available for the 700's. My two favorites of the collection are a 1950 M70 Supergrade and a 2008 700 Sendero SFII with Jewell trigger.
 
I'm sorry I think I started a discussion I did'nt mean to.What I meant to ask does one design make it a bit more accurate and customisble.I was wondering if the claw might affect accuracy or anything.And if rebarreled are both equally doable.I did'nt mean to start a which is better.
 
Yeah, I'd like to see Remington shape up...I mean, I have more Remingtons than anything else in the hunting bolt gun class.

They just HAVE to lower their prices, after shaping up the quality...there isn't a Remington made worth what they are asking for them...we have soooo many Remington rifles just gathering dust at the shop...folks just wont pay the price for them...and most of them have little mark-up on them.

It's like you either buy a $500 SPS or a $1000 CDL...the SPS isn't even worth that, but you can live with that kind of price, and 1k for a CDL....somebody, please!
 
Guns from Italy and Finland have gone up, too, and that's probably got a lot to do with the dollar's overall decline -- but Beretta, Sako, etc. have not gone up as much, proportionately, as CZs have.

Aaahh. All things being equal it's a bit easier to square a round tubular action like the 700. But more importantly it's advantageous to have the case head fully supported the way only a push feed can. Many custom benchrest actions are modifications of the 700 design. That said I believe 90%+ of accuracy comes from the barrel. I'm sure a M70 can be built to be extremely accurate. For a bench gun I go 700 all the time. You can also put a Jewell trigger on a 700 and have possibly the very best rifle trigger availabe with extremely short lock time.
 
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It's like you either buy a $500 SPS or a $1000 CDL...the SPS isn't even worth that, but you can live with that kind of price, and 1k for a CDL....somebody, please!

No to hijack this thread but how do you think Remmy can remedy this? They're not moving in my gunshops either. The cannot overnight improve quality to make them worth $1000. Have you ever seen a gun company drastically reduce prices? Not likely. Seems like they put themselves in a tight spot. And during a few record number years for gun sales they do this?
 
thank you Horsemany thats kinda what I meant this question to be,not really which is best,Just which lends itsself to more work down the road
 
What I meant to ask does one design make it a bit more accurate and customisble.

The Remington is both.

It depends what you want the rifle for.

I don't care about a 3-position safety. 2 is fine, and is arguably quicker to disengage in a hunting situation. But the lack of a bolt lock makes a gun not a hunting rifle, in my book. If you drive your ATV to a stand, well, YMMV. But if you're going to sling a rifle next to a backpack, and crawl through heavy brush, that rifle is a useless POS if the bolt doesn't lock down.

What makes the Remington an inferior design is that the safety didn't work right, so they "fixed" it by removing the bolt lock and pretended nothing was wrong. That's not really the design, but the execution, and I think Remington's poor execution has been addressed. But the push-feed design, while it has never been the top choice for a good military or hunting rifle to be used while on foot, can be made more accurate.

So in that way, and for what the OP is asking, the Remingon design is superior, regardless of Remington's current quality.

Of course, all-out accuracy isn't the only thing that matters, once you leave the rifle range.

That's why threads like this go all over the place. For one person, a 10 lb. rifle with a big scope on it, a bolt that doesn't lock, and a feed system that has to be used in an upright position and can't extract a round unless it's been closed on that round, is just fine as long as it's really accurate. They won't ever have any idea why that wouldn't be a great rifle for someone who hunts on foot. But some of us do hunt on foot, practice in the field, and really don't even enjoy spending a day at a shooting bench.
 
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In function (as in bullet holes in the target)...no difference really.

In looks and feel...the Model 70 is, and really always has been, better.

Remington has gone downhill the past few years...the new Model 70's are very nice. I finally got to handle one that belongs to a friend of a friend (Coyote Lite in 308). As i have said before, I don't care for fluted barrels...but the actions are smooth.

I'm seriously considering a Model 70 Featherweight myself.
 
People have done all of those things with a flintlock, mljdeckard. So what?

For any given scenario, someone has done X with Y, including stop a grizzly attack with a .22 rimfire. Who cares? Anyone with the slightest inkiling of critical thinking skills would not think that means it's a good choice, if you have a choice.

I'll choose the better design for a given purpose, if I have my druthers.
 
No to hijack this thread but how do you think Remmy can remedy this? They're not moving in my gunshops either. The cannot overnight improve quality to make them worth $1000. Have you ever seen a gun company drastically reduce prices? Not likely. Seems like they put themselves in a tight spot. And during a few record number years for gun sales they do this?

I don't know what the answer is for Remington... I would think they need to restructure their thinking so to speak, and start producing quality again, drop the prices and cut their losses. It would be really sweet of them to buy back some of these moldy models that are not moving!

There is NOTHING wrong or bad with the Remington rifle, its design, function, durability or looks... if you get a good one, you have a top notch rifle that will more than likely be a tack driver, that's IF, you get a good one!

Seems as though when Cerberus came on line quality went down and prices went up, customer service took a dive and the happy, cheerful people on the other end of the phone became non-existent.

I don't know, but something has to give. If you remember, it was the same with Savage some years ago...you were better off not to buy a Savage in those days, but with some reform, Savage is well on there way to being the top selling brand.(quote from Retailer Magazine)

does one design make it a bit more accurate and customisble.I was wondering if the claw might affect accuracy or anything.And if rebarreled are both equally doable.I did'nt mean to start a which is better.

Any bolt gun can be re-barreled, why you would do so...? As for being more customizable, well, that goes to the 700 action...assembly and quality built parts will dictate the accuracy, some favor the push feed design as for complete cartridge case head support as Horsemany said, does this make for a more accurate rifle, not necessarily...or just, no, it does not.
Both the Model 70 and the 700 can be just as accurate, the thing is, do you really want to buy a rifle you feel you have to modify for reasons of accuracy, or would accuracy you desire, right out of the box, make you feel better?
 
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I usually just read and do not post much on this site, but in my opinion, even with the "quality " issue with Remington right now, the Remington 700 has been easier for "me" to get to shot more accurately than the new Winchesters.

Now before everyone jumps all over me I have owned two of the new FN model 70s. One was the standard grade and the other was the 2008 limited edition. I had issues with both rifles in the accuracy department. Yes they both came around, but after much tinkering and load development. It has always been a easy fix if I had a 700 that had a hip cup or two, but these rifles really gave me fits and never did group what my 700s have been able to do.

I have since sold both rifles and I am currently on the lookout for older Remington 700s. These two Model 70s were the first new guns I have bought in a very long time, as I am always on the lookout for good used rifles. Remember, this is my experience, and I have nothing against Winchester. I gave them a try after reading all the good reports, but I might be expecting to much anymore with these newer rifles...?
 
I was wondering if the claw might affect accuracy or anything.And if rebarreled are both equally doable.

257WM_CDL-SF,

I have a couple custom-built rifles, one built on a Winchester pushfeed action (like Remingtons), and the other using the Winchester CRF action with claw extractor. Accuracy is excellent with both. Hope that helps.

Don
 
You speak in many absolutes.

Whatever.

I'll choose the better design for a given purpose, if I have my druthers.

That doesn't sound all that absolute, to me.

What IS an absolute is this: if Remington gave a crap about producing a really good hunting rifle, they would have redesigned the safety to make it work right, not just removed the bolt lock.

There are many things one can see by looking closely at Remington's products, and few of them speak well of what Uncle Mike calls their "way of thinking." As a customer, I tend to buy products from a different kind of company -- not that any company or product is perfect.
 
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