Molon Labe? Gimme a break.
- Thread starter Richard.Howe
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goalie
Member
It has been my life's experience that, if the government does choose to tread an evil road and actually confiscate firearms from law-abiding citizens, it will not be the "talkers" that the government has to worry about.
As I said earlier, IMO, one would have to be a little "off" to spend any large amount of time dwelling on the possible future violent revolt that could occur if certain scenarios came to pass. That large amount of time would be better spent writing letters and being politically active, so as to ensure that no such evil days come upon us.
Lead, follow or get out of the way.
Pebcac
Member
I haven't read this whole thread, so a whole lot of this might've been said already. If so, I'm just putting it in my own words. 
There won't be any mass confiscation. The feds aren't that stupid, because someone will start shooting, and that could set off an armed rebellion, although it'd likely be on a very, very small scale.
What will happen is registration, and a ban to follow, and another, and another. The "citizens" will be expected to turn their banned arms in, maybe with compensation, maybe without. It will end there, until law enforcement has another reason to enter and search, be it on other issues, or off of a tip that someone has banned arms. Should that someone start shooting, we all know that the media won't represent it as defense of one's rights. Public opinion will be against it. Then the government will prosecute on illegal-weapons charges and start seizing property.
They will get us one by one this way, until those who have guns left - with no ammo, since it's also been banned - will start tossing them into lakes and rivers for fear of federal prison. Don't think an ammo ban is likely? Not right at the present, I'll grant you that, but we all know that Kennedy et al are already planting the seeds: 30-30 as armor-piercing sniper ammo, etc.
The initial fight is happening now, in the halls of Congress, and that means, for us, at the polling places. Should we lose the battle at the federal level, all we'll have left is the states. The states will be the last bastions of defense for the Bill of Rights, not just the 2nd Amendment alone. Will any states be willing to risk secession and armed conflict over it?
Everyone should be aware that this won't be a case of open social tyranny, such as taxation without representation and so forth. It will be incremental, back-door erosion of rights, piece by piece, person by person.
We must all get off our butts and vote, and drag as many other people to the booth as we can. Speak out, demonstrate, write letters and articles. Spend your money, and most of all, educate yourself and as many others as you can!
You know what always seems to be missing in these "Molon labe" discussions? The fact that the Revolutionaries did a whole hell of a lot more than just pick up a musket and fire it at red uniforms. They spoke out! They wrote constantly, appealing to the masses. They wrote essays, letters to the editor, pamphlets, articles, books, speeches, and, finally, when no option was left to them, a Declaration. But before the Declaration was written, they convinced their fellow citizens that they were all having their rights violated, whether or not they were individually affected by any issue in particular, and that they deserved to rule themselves by the vote!
Where's all that for the RKBA? Are we to rush to arms over a law passed by our own representatives before we speak our piece and get the message out? The beauty of our system of government is that, when it comes right down to it, every one of those pukes in Washington answers to the voters of their districts. Even Kennedy, Hillary, Kerry, and Feinstein. A lot of talk on a gun board means squat to the fate of the RKBA, and we all know it. We're preaching to the choir here, yammering about "molon labe" and "sheepdogs" to each other, when we could be out, like many here do, introducing new shooters to our philosophy and converting the opposition. The real fight is in the public consciousness, and right now we're losing. Badly.
There won't be any mass confiscation. The feds aren't that stupid, because someone will start shooting, and that could set off an armed rebellion, although it'd likely be on a very, very small scale.
What will happen is registration, and a ban to follow, and another, and another. The "citizens" will be expected to turn their banned arms in, maybe with compensation, maybe without. It will end there, until law enforcement has another reason to enter and search, be it on other issues, or off of a tip that someone has banned arms. Should that someone start shooting, we all know that the media won't represent it as defense of one's rights. Public opinion will be against it. Then the government will prosecute on illegal-weapons charges and start seizing property.
They will get us one by one this way, until those who have guns left - with no ammo, since it's also been banned - will start tossing them into lakes and rivers for fear of federal prison. Don't think an ammo ban is likely? Not right at the present, I'll grant you that, but we all know that Kennedy et al are already planting the seeds: 30-30 as armor-piercing sniper ammo, etc.
The initial fight is happening now, in the halls of Congress, and that means, for us, at the polling places. Should we lose the battle at the federal level, all we'll have left is the states. The states will be the last bastions of defense for the Bill of Rights, not just the 2nd Amendment alone. Will any states be willing to risk secession and armed conflict over it?
Everyone should be aware that this won't be a case of open social tyranny, such as taxation without representation and so forth. It will be incremental, back-door erosion of rights, piece by piece, person by person.
We must all get off our butts and vote, and drag as many other people to the booth as we can. Speak out, demonstrate, write letters and articles. Spend your money, and most of all, educate yourself and as many others as you can!
You know what always seems to be missing in these "Molon labe" discussions? The fact that the Revolutionaries did a whole hell of a lot more than just pick up a musket and fire it at red uniforms. They spoke out! They wrote constantly, appealing to the masses. They wrote essays, letters to the editor, pamphlets, articles, books, speeches, and, finally, when no option was left to them, a Declaration. But before the Declaration was written, they convinced their fellow citizens that they were all having their rights violated, whether or not they were individually affected by any issue in particular, and that they deserved to rule themselves by the vote!
Where's all that for the RKBA? Are we to rush to arms over a law passed by our own representatives before we speak our piece and get the message out? The beauty of our system of government is that, when it comes right down to it, every one of those pukes in Washington answers to the voters of their districts. Even Kennedy, Hillary, Kerry, and Feinstein. A lot of talk on a gun board means squat to the fate of the RKBA, and we all know it. We're preaching to the choir here, yammering about "molon labe" and "sheepdogs" to each other, when we could be out, like many here do, introducing new shooters to our philosophy and converting the opposition. The real fight is in the public consciousness, and right now we're losing. Badly.
ctdonath
Member
My faith in the RKBA future just dropped a notch.
Hunter's conviction speaks volumes. A major RKBA activist gets arrested for simple KBA while driving. After tremendous effort, cost, and intercession by other string-pullers, Hunter is thrilled to be convicted of a misdemeanor. ***?
Sure I'm happy that he gets to go home with practically no real punishment (suspended sentence, unsupervised probation, etc.) and gets all his stuff back. ...but...in the end, Ohio wins, RKBA loses: simply bearing arms (loaded (?) in a car) is upheld as a hardcore criminal act, and Hunter is "let off lightly" at the whim of the state. Next time someone is arrested for armed-while-driving in Ohio, out will come Ohio v. Hunter and another will be convicted - probably with harsher consequences.
I can't blame Hunter. I had a chance to fight for the Firearms Owners' Protection Act, but gave up when I just didn't know how to pursue it...and nobody wanted to help (even with a cop on tape stating "I am the law"). 'tis easy to pontificate in comfort, but the individual faced with personal loss understandably seeks individual survival.
And that's how RKBA is being lost: one crushed gunowner at a time. There's plenty of bravado about when "they" come for "our" guns ... but in reality, it's a matter of attrition, one at a time - quietly.
At least there is hope: AWB sunsetting, shall-issue spreading, every restriction selling more guns.
Hunter's conviction speaks volumes. A major RKBA activist gets arrested for simple KBA while driving. After tremendous effort, cost, and intercession by other string-pullers, Hunter is thrilled to be convicted of a misdemeanor. ***?
Sure I'm happy that he gets to go home with practically no real punishment (suspended sentence, unsupervised probation, etc.) and gets all his stuff back. ...but...in the end, Ohio wins, RKBA loses: simply bearing arms (loaded (?) in a car) is upheld as a hardcore criminal act, and Hunter is "let off lightly" at the whim of the state. Next time someone is arrested for armed-while-driving in Ohio, out will come Ohio v. Hunter and another will be convicted - probably with harsher consequences.
I can't blame Hunter. I had a chance to fight for the Firearms Owners' Protection Act, but gave up when I just didn't know how to pursue it...and nobody wanted to help (even with a cop on tape stating "I am the law"). 'tis easy to pontificate in comfort, but the individual faced with personal loss understandably seeks individual survival.
And that's how RKBA is being lost: one crushed gunowner at a time. There's plenty of bravado about when "they" come for "our" guns ... but in reality, it's a matter of attrition, one at a time - quietly.
At least there is hope: AWB sunsetting, shall-issue spreading, every restriction selling more guns.
Some of you talk as though .gov actually has the power to disinvent the firearm and erase the technology by passing laws. You can bet that if/when the time comes when private possession of firearms in this country is prohibited, whatever tyrants in power will have much worse planned for you. It will not be benevolence. Our demise as a free society will not be the result of banned firearms, it will come as a result of the theft and destruction of our culture.
ctdonath
Member
[Hunter] knew he was breaking the law
So RKBA is simply at the whim of legislators?
and chose to do it anyway
Where is your line?
..he deserved what he got
May your chains rest lightly upon you.
So RKBA is simply at the whim of legislators?
and chose to do it anyway
Where is your line?
..he deserved what he got
May your chains rest lightly upon you.
dustind
Member
"Would you shoot the first cop who came for your books?"
I and almost everyone else would probably revolt. Maybe not violently, but people would. I would have no problem with people doing that.
"Reality check, kids." More insults. What a surpise. FWIW I am completely out of everything to drink put tap water, vegtrable juice (yuk), and tap water.
patentmike: Do you have any evidence that those people that you disagree with are doing nothing politically?
artherd: I would hand over the SKS for practicle reasons, then get much more active.
Wildalaska: I bet the patriots are glad that they have your moral support though. Almost no one knows that the confiscations exist. The people that lost their guns should have payed better attention to legislation, and they can move to other states. I will continue to fight politically until there are much bigger violations of people's rights.
If anyone wants to go after people (government or not) for minor violations of their rights, and that is their honest reason. I will not say that they are wrong.
I and almost everyone else would probably revolt. Maybe not violently, but people would. I would have no problem with people doing that.
"Reality check, kids." More insults. What a surpise. FWIW I am completely out of everything to drink put tap water, vegtrable juice (yuk), and tap water.
patentmike: Do you have any evidence that those people that you disagree with are doing nothing politically?
artherd: I would hand over the SKS for practicle reasons, then get much more active.
Wildalaska: I bet the patriots are glad that they have your moral support though.
Almost no one knows that the confiscations exist. The people that lost their guns should have payed better attention to legislation, and they can move to other states. I will continue to fight politically until there are much bigger violations of people's rights. If anyone wants to go after people (government or not) for minor violations of their rights, and that is their honest reason. I will not say that they are wrong.
Simon76
member
Unbelievable...
1) YES, I WILL shoot anyone who threatens the safety and security of me or MINE. It is not only my GOD-given right, it is my DUTY as an American citizen. (And yours, too, of course).
2) Don't bury ALL of your guns, and use the ones you keep to fight your way OUT of where you are and TO the nearest rifle. Fire, maneuver and survive after that. (S.E.R.E./Guerilla Warfare).
3) Political activism, in this day and age, only serves to either prolong the inevitable, satisfy a sheep's sense of "doing something", or as a distraction from what you're REALLY doing..."behind the scenes".
4) The existense of a non-violent world/all violence being magically swept away from the face of the planet, are pure fantasy and, therefore, have ZERO bearing on real world events. GET THESE NOTIONS OUT OF YOUR MINDS NOW. They are a waste of time. Leave Disneyland and LEARN SOMETHING.
5) The most important point is this: WE CANNOT LOSE. If you feel differently, get out of the way, you are dead weight. The name of the game is Hit and Run. Think a small force can't beat a massive, better trained, better equipped force? Tell that to the NVA or the Vietcong. In 2,000 years they've (The Vietnamese in general) NEVER been taken by force. NOT ONCE. While I do NOT agree with their politics/philosophies in the least tiny bit, their ability to employ guerilla tactics against a seemingly overwhelming force, cannot be argued. I study the masters, so should you. THIS is what it will come down to.
Simon.
(Not intended as a "flame". Intended as thought provoking and educational.).
1) YES, I WILL shoot anyone who threatens the safety and security of me or MINE. It is not only my GOD-given right, it is my DUTY as an American citizen. (And yours, too, of course).
2) Don't bury ALL of your guns, and use the ones you keep to fight your way OUT of where you are and TO the nearest rifle. Fire, maneuver and survive after that. (S.E.R.E./Guerilla Warfare).
3) Political activism, in this day and age, only serves to either prolong the inevitable, satisfy a sheep's sense of "doing something", or as a distraction from what you're REALLY doing..."behind the scenes".
4) The existense of a non-violent world/all violence being magically swept away from the face of the planet, are pure fantasy and, therefore, have ZERO bearing on real world events. GET THESE NOTIONS OUT OF YOUR MINDS NOW. They are a waste of time. Leave Disneyland and LEARN SOMETHING.
5) The most important point is this: WE CANNOT LOSE. If you feel differently, get out of the way, you are dead weight. The name of the game is Hit and Run. Think a small force can't beat a massive, better trained, better equipped force? Tell that to the NVA or the Vietcong. In 2,000 years they've (The Vietnamese in general) NEVER been taken by force. NOT ONCE. While I do NOT agree with their politics/philosophies in the least tiny bit, their ability to employ guerilla tactics against a seemingly overwhelming force, cannot be argued. I study the masters, so should you. THIS is what it will come down to.
Simon.
(Not intended as a "flame". Intended as thought provoking and educational.).
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Wildalaska
member
Bwaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahah
WildbestresponseunderthecircsAlaska
WildbestresponseunderthecircsAlaska
cuchulainn
Member
You make it sound like the choice is only yours.
When faced with the prospect of confiscating your weapons, "Barney Fife" has a few options. He can ignore your guns and avoid a fight for sure, he can take your side and be on the right side of the fight, or he can side against you and against the Constitution.
You are not the only one making a choice here.
The thought of shooting other Americans sickens me and I personally feel that we can and should stop it before it ever gets close to that point.
I personally feel that in the event of an edict ordering us to surrender our weapons, we should just all openly and very publicly ignore the law. I am talking AK's and FAL's slung over many, many shoulders while grocery shopping. It sounds rediculous, but it is a way to step things to the next level without actually starting a fight.
Brinkmanship.
When faced with the prospect of confiscating your weapons, "Barney Fife" has a few options. He can ignore your guns and avoid a fight for sure, he can take your side and be on the right side of the fight, or he can side against you and against the Constitution.
You are not the only one making a choice here.
The thought of shooting other Americans sickens me and I personally feel that we can and should stop it before it ever gets close to that point.
I personally feel that in the event of an edict ordering us to surrender our weapons, we should just all openly and very publicly ignore the law. I am talking AK's and FAL's slung over many, many shoulders while grocery shopping. It sounds rediculous, but it is a way to step things to the next level without actually starting a fight.
Brinkmanship.
Black Snowman
Member
I would HOPE (but don't count on) that there would be considerable resistance to finding people for the job of disarming Americans wholesale. Hense the incramentalism. Get us down to where we're harmless enough it would work.
For instance I know my local Sheriff would be more likely to call for armed men to support the officers in repelling the JBT than he would be to go door to door saying "Please turn them in."
Friends, relatives, and aquaintences at the local USMC and Airforce bases I know would take exception to the activity as well. If the feds really pushed it before they got enough people disarmed and brainwashed it would be a very nasty civial war and any country with the means would take it as the chance to try and wipe us out.
If they continue to gain ground and slowly erode our rights generations will suffer for years until there are enough atrocities to stimulate another rebelion. It's the cycle of history for nations in our position. The other historical end to a civilization is foriegn invasion, which seems unlikely as we're currently too powerful and modern WMD make this a dicey proposition at best. More likely we'd be simply wiped out at a point we are weak to remove competion and left a diseased and radioactive wasteland.
I think fighting for our gun rights now will delay this outcome enough to be worthwhile. Whether we have to do it with legislation (or lack there of) or ammunition is really up how badly they want a disarmed populace.
For instance I know my local Sheriff would be more likely to call for armed men to support the officers in repelling the JBT than he would be to go door to door saying "Please turn them in."
Friends, relatives, and aquaintences at the local USMC and Airforce bases I know would take exception to the activity as well. If the feds really pushed it before they got enough people disarmed and brainwashed it would be a very nasty civial war and any country with the means would take it as the chance to try and wipe us out.
If they continue to gain ground and slowly erode our rights generations will suffer for years until there are enough atrocities to stimulate another rebelion. It's the cycle of history for nations in our position. The other historical end to a civilization is foriegn invasion, which seems unlikely as we're currently too powerful and modern WMD make this a dicey proposition at best. More likely we'd be simply wiped out at a point we are weak to remove competion and left a diseased and radioactive wasteland.
I think fighting for our gun rights now will delay this outcome enough to be worthwhile. Whether we have to do it with legislation (or lack there of) or ammunition is really up how badly they want a disarmed populace.
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