mustanger98
Member
Oleg, is it a Colt or a Smith? Not that it matters to me as I like both. I just can't see the cylinder release button to differentiate? One thing I do know- those big frames are cool.
"Monsters under the bed" and other posters.
- Thread starter Oleg Volk
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Oleg Volk
Moderator Emeritus
Smith.
Powderman
Member
Oleg Volk said:More in the same vein:
Once again, THAT'S the way to do it! w00t!
Great poster, Oleg!
carebear
Member
I guess here's where my thematic elements would gravitate for posters specifically aimed at awakening female non-shooters or shaky anti's to the reality that armed home defense is a possibility and something worth thinking about. Most will transfer to concealed carry posters as well. The key is to actively intend every facet of the image to support, but not interfere with, the underlying message.
That's why I've been picky about putting cool "gun people" stuff into posters I feel aren't really aimed at gun people.
For the models and surroundings:
"Normal" looking women, simply but not mannishly or shabbily dressed. What we as shooters wear to the range is not what most people would wear anywhere. The target of the poster needs to be able to project themself into the models place, not distracted by "I would never wear that". If a non-shooter associates gun owning/carrying with real inconvenience or ugliness, they are going to have a mental block spring up. Our typical gun show clothes are the model for "don't dos".
added: I haven't seen an Oleg model yet who wasn't one form or another of the American "everywoman" so that isn't an issue. I have had issues with some of the more militant clothing choices though. But for a decision, I would ask a panel of the ladies reminding them of the target audience. Anything most of them said "Well, I and most wouldn't have worn it then." probably shouldn't be used.
Also, the setting needs to be something that resembles a mid-line catalog, average America but lived in. Something a person could look at and say, I could live there, sleep on those, drive that, shop there, etc.
For the guns; rifle, shotgun or pistol:
Non-military, definitely not "tactical" in any way - Like it or not, in much of the country "assault rifle" IS a dirty word. A poster aimed at getting people to begin just thinking about any gun positively is not the place to fight that battle. Baby steps.
Base guns, no optics or add-ons - Grampa didn't have a laser sight or forward handgrip on his deer rifle or duck gun. Dad's .38 in the shoebox on the closet shelf didn't have a light mounted on it.
Probably blue and wood, not plastics and stainless - We want to evoke Barney Fife, Grandpa and maybe Magnum PI, "safe" gun associations. Ultramodern guns are just sci-fi movies and cop shows, not the house next door. Your neighbor, the one who owns <gasp> a GUN, owns a scoped Model 70 or a 10/22.
For long guns:
Not oversized or overly complex - although as non-shooters gain experience and get training they can handle anything they want, a non-shooter will not be able to identify themselves in a picture with something that looks like it is heavy or awkward.
For handguns:
Usually use revolvers - due to commonality and that "older, safer" feel. I know a LOT of girls who are somewhat afraid of guns simply due to ex-boyfriends, family members or male acquaintances waving them around or acting like jerks, they now associate "gun" with "scary jerk man". Most gun jerks I know have the hot new pistol, revolvers are what "good guys" carried, the old safe male images.
Make them realistically and proportionately sized - yes, women can carry N-frames or might want a long barrel. Non-shooters know what they've seen, cops and good guys have medium frame, blue, 4" bbl mid-caliber revolvers. (Jerks also tend to own the big shiny magnums, cause they're "tough") Same rules apply for autos, if it looks awkward, you're interfering with the identification. Take care that the autos are also asthetically pleasing. I have shot almost everything at least once, but regardless of uber-efficiency I own and carry guns with classic lines and abstract beauty.
Women don't need only smaller guns, no mousegun extravaganda necessary, but a larger gun is on average intimidating to the non-shooter (til they shoot one, then many take quite to them ).
That's why I've been picky about putting cool "gun people" stuff into posters I feel aren't really aimed at gun people.
For the models and surroundings:
"Normal" looking women, simply but not mannishly or shabbily dressed. What we as shooters wear to the range is not what most people would wear anywhere. The target of the poster needs to be able to project themself into the models place, not distracted by "I would never wear that". If a non-shooter associates gun owning/carrying with real inconvenience or ugliness, they are going to have a mental block spring up. Our typical gun show clothes are the model for "don't dos".
added: I haven't seen an Oleg model yet who wasn't one form or another of the American "everywoman" so that isn't an issue. I have had issues with some of the more militant clothing choices though. But for a decision, I would ask a panel of the ladies reminding them of the target audience. Anything most of them said "Well, I and most wouldn't have worn it then." probably shouldn't be used.
Also, the setting needs to be something that resembles a mid-line catalog, average America but lived in. Something a person could look at and say, I could live there, sleep on those, drive that, shop there, etc.
For the guns; rifle, shotgun or pistol:
Non-military, definitely not "tactical" in any way - Like it or not, in much of the country "assault rifle" IS a dirty word. A poster aimed at getting people to begin just thinking about any gun positively is not the place to fight that battle. Baby steps.
Base guns, no optics or add-ons - Grampa didn't have a laser sight or forward handgrip on his deer rifle or duck gun. Dad's .38 in the shoebox on the closet shelf didn't have a light mounted on it.
Probably blue and wood, not plastics and stainless - We want to evoke Barney Fife, Grandpa and maybe Magnum PI, "safe" gun associations. Ultramodern guns are just sci-fi movies and cop shows, not the house next door. Your neighbor, the one who owns <gasp> a GUN, owns a scoped Model 70 or a 10/22.
For long guns:
Not oversized or overly complex - although as non-shooters gain experience and get training they can handle anything they want, a non-shooter will not be able to identify themselves in a picture with something that looks like it is heavy or awkward.
For handguns:
Usually use revolvers - due to commonality and that "older, safer" feel. I know a LOT of girls who are somewhat afraid of guns simply due to ex-boyfriends, family members or male acquaintances waving them around or acting like jerks, they now associate "gun" with "scary jerk man". Most gun jerks I know have the hot new pistol, revolvers are what "good guys" carried, the old safe male images.
Make them realistically and proportionately sized - yes, women can carry N-frames or might want a long barrel. Non-shooters know what they've seen, cops and good guys have medium frame, blue, 4" bbl mid-caliber revolvers. (Jerks also tend to own the big shiny magnums, cause they're "tough") Same rules apply for autos, if it looks awkward, you're interfering with the identification. Take care that the autos are also asthetically pleasing. I have shot almost everything at least once, but regardless of uber-efficiency I own and carry guns with classic lines and abstract beauty.
Women don't need only smaller guns, no mousegun extravaganda necessary, but a larger gun is on average intimidating to the non-shooter (til they shoot one, then many take quite to them
).Oleg Volk
Moderator Emeritus
I also have to use what I have access to. A lot of the fancier guns come from advertising shoots, too. I don't have a K-frame 38, though I could borrow one.
I have to think as an advertisier, use a K-frame as the generic "weapon". But I also want to show the variety of what's available out there, catch the interest of the gamers who would then spread the posters far and wide. My pictures have to be "cool" in order for the to propagate on the web.
I have to think as an advertisier, use a K-frame as the generic "weapon". But I also want to show the variety of what's available out there, catch the interest of the gamers who would then spread the posters far and wide. My pictures have to be "cool" in order for the to propagate on the web.
carebear
Member
I guess I'd argue that if they spread only to gunnies, so what?
To my mind, something Joe Sixpack, who gets it from his buddy Tactical Ted (the gun guy who visits the shops and THR), could then show to Betty Sixpack to help convince her, is what would really have effect.
If she just sees Ted's dream M-4gery it isn't going to help Joe make the case that her learning to shoot their plain jane 870 would be a "good thing."
Again, I realize you are doing all the work Oleg, and your stuff is great. I've liked all of it, across the board. You are really talented and you are so open to constructive help.
Which is how I hope you take or leave my thoughts. I realize I'm projecting what is, to me, an ideal situation, not necessarily a practical option.
Please know I thank you for doing what you do.
To my mind, something Joe Sixpack, who gets it from his buddy Tactical Ted (the gun guy who visits the shops and THR), could then show to Betty Sixpack to help convince her, is what would really have effect.
If she just sees Ted's dream M-4gery it isn't going to help Joe make the case that her learning to shoot their plain jane 870 would be a "good thing."
Again, I realize you are doing all the work Oleg, and your stuff is great. I've liked all of it, across the board. You are really talented and you are so open to constructive help.
Which is how I hope you take or leave my thoughts. I realize I'm projecting what is, to me, an ideal situation, not necessarily a practical option.
Please know I thank you for doing what you do.
NineseveN
member
All 3 posters are winners, hands down IMHO. Good job man!
TallPine
Member
I like the poster with the revolver
I think I will forward a copy of it to my friend who just bought her first very own gun at a gun show yesterday
I think I will forward a copy of it to my friend who just bought her first very own gun at a gun show yesterday
45Broomhandle
Member
NICE GROUP OF POSTERS...
MY FAVORITE IS THE REVOLVER PIC. Gotta' go with carebear's comments. Most ladies I'm acquainted with, or knowledgeable of, prefer a small revolver over the semi-auto. My wife's carry is a pretty, little (old) Colt Detective Special 2" in .38sp. My carry is a little 1934 Beretta .380acp. Bedside is a S&W .357mag Mdl 66, and under my desktop is a P-38 with full clip protruding half an inch from the butt, and the slide back. ALL are loaded with hollow points. Great posters, Oleg!
NOW, if she really wants to scare the crap out of the intruder, (probably couldn't kill or maim him), here's the gun to pose your model with. Liliput 4.25mm. A really great mouse gun. NOTE mag size compared to my little finger.
Speaking of pervs and fetishes, Gustave Flaubert said it best: "That man has missed something who has never left a brothel at sunrise feeling like throwing himself into a river out of pure disgust."
MY FAVORITE IS THE REVOLVER PIC. Gotta' go with carebear's comments. Most ladies I'm acquainted with, or knowledgeable of, prefer a small revolver over the semi-auto. My wife's carry is a pretty, little (old) Colt Detective Special 2" in .38sp. My carry is a little 1934 Beretta .380acp. Bedside is a S&W .357mag Mdl 66, and under my desktop is a P-38 with full clip protruding half an inch from the butt, and the slide back. ALL are loaded with hollow points. Great posters, Oleg!
NOW, if she really wants to scare the crap out of the intruder, (probably couldn't kill or maim him), here's the gun to pose your model with. Liliput 4.25mm. A really great mouse gun. NOTE mag size compared to my little finger.
Speaking of pervs and fetishes, Gustave Flaubert said it best: "That man has missed something who has never left a brothel at sunrise feeling like throwing himself into a river out of pure disgust."
Two thoughts, Oleg:
1. You read H. Beam Piper? --Ach, and me married and so old already! The man was an unsung genius. Sure wish he had stayed around longer.
2. You're not, in the pentultimate poster, suggesting that a couch is any kind of cover, are you? Our heroine is well-armed with the revolver and telephone, but she's not armored at all. I know you (and the THR crowd) know this, but a lifetime of silly Westerns and detective films have given many people a very unrealistic impression of how easily most rounds pass through typical non-masonry walls and normal furniture.
--Herself
1. You read H. Beam Piper? --Ach, and me married and so old already! The man was an unsung genius. Sure wish he had stayed around longer.
2. You're not, in the pentultimate poster, suggesting that a couch is any kind of cover, are you? Our heroine is well-armed with the revolver and telephone, but she's not armored at all. I know you (and the THR crowd) know this, but a lifetime of silly Westerns and detective films have given many people a very unrealistic impression of how easily most rounds pass through typical non-masonry walls and normal furniture.
--Herself
carebear
Member
A lot of people have read Piper.
She's covered behind the arm-or of the couch.
She's covered behind the arm-or of the couch.
mustanger98
Member
Herself said:
In my opinion, regarding Westerns, Louis L'Amour covered the effects of bullets on cover and concealment very well where appropriate to his story, sometimes noting that the .45Colt's 250gr lead slugs would penetrate 8-12" of pine as used in exterior walls and still retain substantial killing power. He didn't say anything that I recall in the passage I'm thinking of about that same lead slug turning the inside of that wall into shrapnel. I do agree that many more westerns, both in the written word and film, have not done anyone any favors in knowledge of firearms. Louis L'Amour himself said one does not simply sit down at the typewriter and dash off a western, and duely noted that most readers of westerns actually know the technical finepoints of the stories such as terrain, flora, fauna, horse-related issues, and weapons. If a cactus is where it isn't in reality, they get disgusted and toss the story aside as garbage. Same way for weapons and ballistic perfromance. Just something I was reminded of. And I'm agreeing about using that sofa. But I'm thinking that's concealment (something to minimize your sillouette behind) rather than cover from incoming fire.
Oleg Volk
Moderator Emeritus
I suggested concealment...my options were limited by the available props.
Cosmoline
Member
You wound me!
carebear
Member
Cosmoline said:
That goes for rustic Alaskan types in spades.
from a photog/lighting angle I humbly make the following comments;
the lady w/shotgun pic; maybe a little "moodier" lighting, it comes across too bright and stark to me. Maybe play with some more shadows and some tungsten lamps to give a warm kick?
I like the next two, I notice they are a bit cooler (spectrum wise), which of course gives the "nighttime" feel, maybe some shadows here would be nice as well.
Besides paying the bills with the LE job I sometimes moonlight (no pun intended) as a no/lo pay gaffer and occasional photog, and I KNOW what a pain in the ___
working with shadows can be. Either way , these posters are VERY good, and I am working hard at not trying to imitate them with some pics of my own. Maybe we should have a photo shot thread and we can start out with a theme and then submit our pics?
the lady w/shotgun pic; maybe a little "moodier" lighting, it comes across too bright and stark to me. Maybe play with some more shadows and some tungsten lamps to give a warm kick?
I like the next two, I notice they are a bit cooler (spectrum wise), which of course gives the "nighttime" feel, maybe some shadows here would be nice as well.
Besides paying the bills with the LE job I sometimes moonlight (no pun intended) as a no/lo pay gaffer and occasional photog, and I KNOW what a pain in the ___
working with shadows can be. Either way , these posters are VERY good, and I am working hard at not trying to imitate them with some pics of my own. Maybe we should have a photo shot thread and we can start out with a theme and then submit our pics?
Others have said similar, but I'd drop the red-dot etc. -- I think the accessories add an element of tactical that unnecessarily introduces other issues and could cloud the core message. I'd keep it clear and as simple as possible, make it a stock 18" bbl. Mossberg 500 (or similar).
And I'd change the bed spread to something that doesn't look "camo" -- maybe just something pink and feminine to amplify the juxtaposition of female but not helpless.
I think it's great that she looks neither scared nor angry - she's just focused and doing what she has to do.
Otherwise, as always, fantastic ideas and fantastic execution.
And I'd change the bed spread to something that doesn't look "camo" -- maybe just something pink and feminine to amplify the juxtaposition of female but not helpless.
I think it's great that she looks neither scared nor angry - she's just focused and doing what she has to do.
Otherwise, as always, fantastic ideas and fantastic execution.
Oleg Volk said:
spacemanspiff
Senior Member
hey now! i wear to work what i wear to a gun show! and i'm in an equally 'yuppy' industry as you are, carebear. not all of us want to have TWO changes of clothes, ya know.
mustanger98
Member
I dress like a cowboy everyday and everywhere regardless. I dress this way at the range too regardless of my choice of iron for that session, which has been known to be levergun and Garand in the same day... I recall the time my Stetson caught that en bloc... But then, most people around me do not dress like me. They're either Wal-Mart or L.L. Bean.
Not if you shoot SASS/CAS.
I think carebear has some good points, the second two posters are better...
#1. I don't feel like I'm looking at an advertisment for add-on tactical accessories.
#2. You can see the model's faces more clearly.
Still, good strong messages.
(On a side note asking a gunny about 'fashion sense' inside the bedroom or otherwise is behavior that seems 'dubious' at best. )
#1. I don't feel like I'm looking at an advertisment for add-on tactical accessories.
#2. You can see the model's faces more clearly.
Still, good strong messages.
(On a side note asking a gunny about 'fashion sense' inside the bedroom or otherwise is behavior that seems 'dubious' at best.
)carebear
Member
Oh, I'm eight flavors of dubious.
Stiletto Null
Member
I know your gear can handle low light...how about using a tac light and bounceback to light up the gun and the model's face some? Deck the model out in the silliest-looking PJs possible. No make-up, dishevelled hair, etc. etc..
Just an idea.
Nice pic, btw. Are your posters open for ripping off?
Just an idea.
Nice pic, btw. Are your posters open for ripping off?
Oleg Volk
Moderator Emeritus
Yes, improve on them please.
The model is from Texas, but I can re-shoot with another subject (maybe a guy this time) with an 870 and a Surefire forend, no optic.
The model is from Texas, but I can re-shoot with another subject (maybe a guy this time) with an 870 and a Surefire forend, no optic.
Stiletto Null
Member
FLOPPY BEDROOM SLIPPERS!!!
I like the pictures (exposure, etc. and I'm too lazy to recrop other people's pictures because I always wind up disliking re-crops vs. the originals—I'm just an amateur w/ a P&S), just throwing some ideas out there.
Your series with the SVT40 seem to be circulating around in odd places on the Internet, I'll note.
I like the pictures (exposure, etc. and I'm too lazy to recrop other people's pictures because I always wind up disliking re-crops vs. the originals—I'm just an amateur w/ a P&S), just throwing some ideas out there.
Your series with the SVT40 seem to be circulating around in odd places on the Internet, I'll note.
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