More War on (people using) Drugs

[roo_ster]

What cpileri said, with bells on it.

I'll never forgive the dirty rat b@stard SOBs who made my grandpa, a veteran of WWII who shot his share of nazis in Italy & was in turn also shot, break the law by having to seek out marijuana in his last months of life, because he couldn't get enough pain meds to manage his terminal (colon, then metastised) cancer.

What a sight, seeing a 70 year old woman trying to figure out what to do with a bag of wacky tobaccy (seeds, stems, & all) and a little pipe, while her husband is moaning in agony in the back bedroom.

Thank you DEA, FDA, & US Congress. May you all rot in your religions' versions of Hades. May you also get your just reward in this lifetime.

 

[Justin]

Wait, so guys like the the genius who shot himself in front of a classroom full of kids get to tell MD's who spent eight years or more learning the craft of medicine what to do?


Does this just not compute for anyone else?

 

[Glock Glockler]

Publius,

It was under the power to tax, now it is under the commerce clause, just like federal firearms laws. See the thread I linked above for more

If I transact business with my doctor and we are both within a state then no interstate commerce has occured, so why would the Feds have ANY say in that matter?

 

[cpileri]

MD degree, actually, different from PhD.

But point well taken!

As for why the feds have a say in intRAstate commerce: because they say they do and no one will stand up to them. It would take a massive and unanimous groundswell of people saying "no!", that's all. But with the fear that no one will go along, as well as the reality that you savings and total assets can be reduced to ZERO with the flip of a computer switch; I doubt we'll see any such resistance.

With that, final, economic trump card in their hands; the feds will continue right along their merry way.

Its a real fix we've gotten ourselves into.
C-

 

[publius]

If I transact business with my doctor and we are both within a state then no interstate commerce has occured, so why would the Feds have ANY say in that matter?

Wickard v. Filburn

Don't ask me to defend it. I spend my time attacking it. But there's your answer. If something affects interstate commerce, even if it occurs entirely within one state and is not a commercial act, it is subject to federal regulation. This is true whether you're talking a homegrown cannabis plant for personal consumption (as in the Raich case), or a homegrown machine gun for personal consumption (as in the Stewart case).

 

[RealGun]

I am unsure of what point I should take from this thread in the context of a gun forum. Anyone want to take a shot?

 

[NHBB]

I think the main thing that jumped out at me from that article, claiming that certain patients resell their meds, generating a whopping national blackmarket of 25 million a year... how much does the DEA get as an annual budget? I would wager a figure several dozen above this miniscule amount when you discuss major expenditures.

 

[Glock Glockler]

Publius,

If you or any other sane person won't defend it why should or anyone else respect it? By their rationale they could force me go out to dinner as opposed to skipping diner because my decision could possibly affect interstate commerce.

It seems some civil disobedience is in order.

 

[The Rabbi]

If you or any other sane person won't defend it why should or anyone else respect it? By their rationale they could force me go out to dinner as opposed to skipping diner because my decision could possibly affect interstate commerce.
It seems some civil disobedience is in order.

Go For It! We're behind you all the way.

 

[TallPine]

I am unsure of what point I should take from this thread in the context of a gun forum. Anyone want to take a shot?

Get informed on issues affecting the right to keep and bear arms and other civil rights.

 

[publius]

I am unsure of what point I should take from this thread in the context of a gun forum. Anyone want to take a shot?

Go back, follow the link I posted, and read the Justice Department's petition for writ of certiori to the Supreme Court in the Stewart (machine gun) case. The purpose of a cert petition is to ask the Court to hear your case. In that particular petition, the Department asked the Court NOT to hear their case, and instead to wait and decide their case based on the outcome of the Raich case, which has already been argued and will be decided soon.

In other words, an expansive view of federal power when it comes to drugs has led to and is supporting an expansive view of federal power when it comes to firearms. If it is decided that a homegrown cannabis plant for personal consumption is not interstate commerce, that will be good news for homegrown machine guns for personal consumption, and the reverse is true as well.

 

[San]

Back to the meds...

I really just don't get how stupid people can be. Now, I suppose that I should be used to human stupidity, with bush being re-elected and all, but...I dunno. I can't see why the government has so much control over things that don't truly affect them. Now, I know it does in a way, but usually not as directly as it does the people that are part of it, and if its not really illegal, and its more hunch/rumor type stuff, they should stay the heck out of it!

 

[YammyMonkey]

My experience with my wife being a chronic pain patient pretty much jives with cpileri's description. It's very difficult to find someone who 1-believes the patient, 2-has any experience in chronic pain management and 3-is willing to actually prescribe the drugs necessary. In my wife's case we had to drive from Pensacola, FL to Birmingham, AL to see what turned out to be the closest female-issue pain specialist as well as one of the best such docs in the country.

Throughout the pain management process you'll get some docs that are passive-aggressive and will write a script for the meds needed, but won't use the correct form (triplicate in some areas) then accuse you of being a drug seeking addict and very rudely tell you you're not welcome at their practice when you politely call them on it. When you do finally find a doc that can take care of all 3 it becomes much more than your average once a year for a checkup dr. patient relationship. The patient is very much dependant on the doc to help with the pain and to keep the addiction/side effect nasties at bay as much as possible.

If you think we, as gun owners, have a hard knock life you should talk to a long-term chronic pain patient sometime. At least most of us only have to worry about getting shot or stabbed instead of living day to day with pain that's just as bad, if not worse in many cases.

IF this doc has done something illegal and truely bad, he should be punished to the fullest extent of the law because he obviously doesn't care about his patients or other chronic pain patients either. IF he did something bad it will only help to increase the horrid stereotype that drugs like OxyContin have been given by the illegal druggies/suppliers and the "make a story" media. If not, then the DEA has just managed to do the same thing while destroying that doc's career and credibility.

 

[goalie]

Leave medicine to the doctors, and may the government leave us alone.

Actually, I am one of those "other" healthcare people who is quite often underwhelmed with what I see from the MDs I deal with. There are a LOT of physicians out there that I would not allow within 50 feet of a loved one, and your attitude of "we went to medical school and you didn't, so you don't know anything about it" is rather childish and often untrue. I can think of at least 5 critical care RN's off the top of my head that I would rather have manange my (or a loved one's) care during an MI instead of almost any general practice physician I have ever met in the event that there was no cardiologist available.

I often get annoyed at the physicians that have to ask us why a patient of theirs is on dialysis after a cardiology consult when, in fact, they are on CHF solution therapy. At least some of us "other" healthcare" employees are able to read the chart of an ICU patient and understand the course and plan of care that has been put in place.

The higher the horse one sits upon, the farther one has to fall....

 

[Jammer Six]

Actually, I am one of those "other" healthcare people who is quite often underwhelmed with what I see from the MDs I deal with

I agree.

No one person rates being trusted with absolute authority. No one beyond oversight. No one is beyond question.

Even if they were, life goes on. Situations change, people change. One who was beyond question yesterday could be today's rogue, and tomorrow's felon.

American health care is some of the best in the world, and accountability is one of the biggest reasons why.

It amuses me that the system of government that generated the climate for such achievment is being blamed for enforcing the accountability that keeps it that way.

 

[publius]

American health care is some of the best in the world, and accountability is one of the biggest reasons why.

It amuses me that the system of government that generated the climate for such achievment is being blamed for enforcing the accountability that keeps it that way.

Freedom to innovate is a bigger reason why. The government that protects that freedom can and does infringe upon it as well.

The last time government-enforced accountability really paid off was the Pure Food and Drug Act over a century ago. Once they had to say what was in them, and in what dosages, the patent medicine industry virtually disappeared, along with many cases of (mostly morphine) addiction.

That worked. Prohibition laws haven't. Far from increasing accountability, they create black markets and incentives for corruption which eliminate all accountability. "Legit" doctors don't want to go anywhere near the pain management business if they can avoid it, and most can. Who wants the DEA as a managing partner in his practice? Who wants a patient who will need ever-increasing doses of narcotics for the rest of his life? Are a doctor's professional actions and opinions really something that must be regulated at the federal level in order to properly regulate interstate commerce?