Mosin or Enfield sporter for all your short-range deer needs?

[bobbo]

Hi, all. I'm looking for a cheap deer rifle (like, $150 or less.. I'm cheap and dead is dead at the 100 yards you cans see in my part of WNY). It's not like the deer in WNY are that hard to kill, I tallied up 3 in one semester commuting to college, hehe. I think finding a beat-up sporter and fixing it up could be a lot of fun, too.

The first gun I'm looking at is an Enfield No. 4 Mk I sporter:
Pro:
Bolt is slicker than snot. Almost Krag good.
Very well made.
Not a commie gun, hehe.
Can add a No. 5 kit and make it look almost stock, yet be light and handy still.
Detachable mags are nice.
Can scope with non-D&T mounts without going with a scout scope.
Con:
No surplus ammo, so I'll have to make all my plinking ammo myself.

Another option is a Mosin 91/30.
Pros:
I know how to take apart and put back together a Mosin in my sleep.
Surplus ammo is dirt cheap.
Cons:
Harder to scope well (without D&T, which I don't know how to do).
Can't get a nifty kit like No. 5 Enfield for it to make it look all stock and handy.
Overall, kinda clunky of a gun. Extractors suck, bolt is clunky and magazine is rather crude, but works.
Would need to bend bolt handle for scoping, unless I went with a scout scope.

So... what you all think?

 

[M.C.]

91/30

 

[Vaarok]

You only need one shot and iron sights. I got my deer with a Mauser, Mosin, and my Winchester '95, and none of them was any further than fifty yards.

 

[Phaethon]

Enfield mags aren't designed to be detached from the weapon and swapped like normal magazines. This would quickly damage the feed lips; Enfields were designed to be loaded through charger clips from the top of the receiver. It's my understanding that the tolerances of Enfield chambers are also very loose, so that you can expect reduced accuracy and drastically shortened brass-life (if you intend to reload for .303). Also, the extractor on the Mosin isn't that bad. It's pretty similar in principle to the Enfield anyway, considering that they're both rimmed cartridges.

I think I'd take the Mosin. They're dirt cheap, they're just as capable of hitting anything within a hundred yards (some of them are actually pretty good shooters), they look pretty rad with a Soviet PU scope, the brass is better reloadable and the ammo cheaper than .303, and you can just throw on a polymer replacement stock to make it lighter and abuse-withstanding. Also, bending the 91/30 bolt would pretty much resolve any issues with it being clunky, given the immense amount of additional leverage it would confer. Besides, what would you need a ten round mag for?

Have you considered an Ishapore 2A1? It's a Mk III Enfield in .308.

 

[35 Whelen]

I've owned alot of both rifles, and I'd hands down pick the Enfield. Prvi loads soft point loads for each and either caliber is less than $14 per box of 20. the .303 is available in either 150 or 180 gr. soft point.
I know the Mosin's are cheap and that was the initial attraction for me. But after owning a half-dozen of them, and trying various ways to improve them, I decided that when you pay $80 for a rifle, you get an $80 rifle. the stumpy bolt handle is almost a joke.
The Enfields on the other hand are much more refined, have a slick action, and clamp-on scope mounts are available that place the scope over the receiver. The 7.62x54r is a bit more powerful than the .303, but I doubt any deer in the world would know the difference.
If you're really undecided, maybe you could borrow one of each and try them out.
Good luck deciding.
35W

 

[sayak]

Go with the Enfield

I own both (actually my son has the MN now) and even after intensive "sporterizing of the MN (stock, bolt, scope, trigger mods), it was still a clunky rifle. Then I picked up a No.1MkIII at a garage sale, and after working the bolt fell in love with it. I have no problem with pulling the magazine in and out for reloading (which you don't have to do if you don't want to on the bench) and generations have done it without problems. Plus it holds ten rounds! Ammunition is not that expensive, even in Alaska. It is in every way the cultured English gentleman compared to the unrefined cossack. The wood and steel are superior materials as well.

 

[WardenWolf]

This guy makes new Mosin bolt bodies with bent bolt handles for a fair price, and can also modify your existing bolt:

http://www.mosinnagant.net/Boltman/Boltman.html

Mosins headspace on the bolt head, so you don't need to worry about that.

I wouldn't call my Mosin Nagant clunky. Granted, I have an all-matching 1943 Izhevsk. Only issue I've ever had with it is worn out barrel band retainers. It's long, but handles well and the sling works well for bracing. Mosin bolts can also be made very smooth. There's only 2 places they normally hang up: one, in the locking area, if there's cosmoline buildup or a burr (burrs are fairly uncommon), and two, the top of the magazine well's stripper clip feed ramp can sometimes protrude into the bolt area. This is easily fixable with a Dremel or other grinding tool. Other than that, the Mosin bolt operates quite smoothly. My bolt literally drops open under gravity after being opened.

 

[skyhorse]

I agree with 35 Whelen. The Enfield hands down!
.303 Brit is availible online $12.00/box

The clamp type scope mount from ATI works just fine for us.

 

[kingcheese]

i had owned both guns, both a no4mk1 and a m91/30

the magazine on the no4mk1 isnt meant to be removed for reloading but for cleaning

both rifles i had where military original, no modification

i perfer the 91/30- simply because every thing for it is cheaper, and the two differnt rifles are useing a cartrige that is pretty much the same power wise

the no4mk1 where sometime hastly put together, and sometimes are a little tempramental, but definately has a smoother action, but i couldnt get use to the sloppy trigger pull, and that fact that in original condition it weighs more then a nagant

if you want a good cheap dear hunter, buy a 91/30, and leave it stock, if you put a scope on it, using a scope mount similar to the ones the russain made, you need to be carefull, the rifle has a bad habbit of makeing your shoulder feel like it should be seperated from your body, so if you dont take the rcoil right, youll get scope eye

 

[WardenWolf]

Recoil on the M91/30 isn't bad, and they make a rubber buttpad for it that replaces the metal plate and increases length of pull by 1 inch. As long as you stand right, you won't feel it.

 

[BrocLuno]

Split receiver or bridged receiver? I'll take bridged every time. Just way more options for sights

 

[Robert]

Enfield.

 

[bbuddtec]

I think the scope factor doesn't matter (+1 Vaarok #3)

Then cheap is Mosin and ammo, that's just me, I'd rather that I had the combloc gun than them

 

[wnycollector]

Up until ~5 years ago I used a 12ga slug gun exclusivley for dear hunting but once my friend bought a place in Cattaragus county...I decided to use some of my old surplus rifles to hunt with. I have used an 98k, 91/30, and SKS to take deer with recently. All my shots were at less than 75 yards so any of my .30cal cartrdges were more than adequate.

I think the 91/30 would be much cheaper to feed and thus make it easier to practice with.

 

[ball3006]

If you want a 91/30 for short range hunting, why the scope? I can hit anything with my Mosin Nagants out as far as I can see. If you want a short range Mosin, get a M44. They have a fixed bayonet that makes a dandy rifle holder while you gut your deer and have a beer.......The reason there are so many "sporterized" Mosin Nagants on the market is because they were sold because they don't shoot worth a s..........chris3

 

[Caliper_Mi]

Do you have ammo capacity restrictions while hunting in your area? Something to consider with the Enfield. (10 rounds is evil in a rifle!)

Enfield No. 4 has better factory sights and an easier to use safety as well.

Mosins are simply awesome though. Russian commercial 203gr soft point rounds are inexpensive, readily available and make a big impression on gelatin.

Use whichever you like. Both rounds are so very close in power that the difference will be which is more accurate in your hands.

 

[Still Shooting]

Ammo Restrictions - NY State

The All-Knowing, All-Seeing State of New York does not want you to have a capacity of more then 5 rounds. A bigger magazine is a no-no. That said, until I can disassemble, modify, and braze together a flush magazine for my No. 1 Mk III Enfield sporter, I have modified a 10 round magazine by removing a little of the spring and fitting a wood block in the bottom of the magazine box. -And yes, I did have to gently bend the magazine lips out to do that, but bent back into place the "fix" works.

I removed the clip charger bridge from mine, and mounted a Williams peep on the rear right wall of the receiver. Using a high front ramp + blade, I am still able to remove the bolt entirely without sight interference.

 

[mgregg85]

I'd vote mosin because it already has the 5 round magazine that will be needed in most places.

If you plan on sporterizing then please buy a gun thats already been bubba'd up. I hate seeing someone destroy a nice piece of history.

Sporterizing isn't a crime, but it should be.

 

[bobbo]

So far, thanks for the advice everyone. Still thinking. I've shot both (the Mosin quite a bit), and while the Enfield is nicer (work the bolts and tell me I'm wrong), I'm still not quite convinced that's the way I should go.

The All-Knowing, All-Seeing State of New York does not want you to have a capacity of more then 5 rounds.

State law only limits mag size in autoloaders. Nothing is mentioned about bolt-actions.

Relevent part of state Enviromental Conservation law

c. any auto-loading firearm of a construction to contain more than six
shells in the magazine and chamber combined, except
(1) such a firearm using twenty-two caliber rim-fire ammunition, or
(2) such a firearm which has been altered so as to reduce its capacity
to not more than six shells at one time in the magazine and chamber
combined, or
(3) an auto-loading pistol having a barrel less than eight inches in
length.

NY is teh evil, but it's not that bad here Not that I plan on using 10 shots to kill a deer or anything. No Swiss deer for me, lol. Thanks for the info on lowering the magazine capacity. No reason to antagonize the ECOs or anything.

f you plan on sporterizing then please buy a gun thats already been bubba'd up. I hate seeing someone destroy a nice piece of history. Sporterizing isn't a crime, but it should be.

That's why I said a sporterized Enfield. No point in hacking a nice one up when you can get one already hacked to pieces for less . Nobody cares about Mosins, though. With 27 million made, they are the starlings of the milsurp world, hehe (putting on flame-retardant suit now). Nah, just kidding. I'll get a chopped one.

 

[mokin]

Yesterday morning I went out and shot my Finnish M-39 and a 1918 No1 Mk III. One hundred, two hundred, three hundred, and five hundred yards with iron sights. Rang the gongs about equally with each. Not quite the same rifles rifles you are considering but pretty close. Although accuracy varies between the two I think the more accurate of the two is generally the Lee Enfield. Depending on the amount of sporterization, I would go with the Lee Enfield.

 

[Still Shooting]

My Enfield sporter was already bubba'd (in spades) when I bought it 28 years ago for $20! It had only the bottom of the military stock on it, metal was (surface) in bad shape, etc.

I bobbed the barrel (about 2-1/2") and re-crowned it, removed the clip charger bridge, then sanded clean with wet-or-dry - carefully - and bought a Fajen blank for $75. It sat for years after that, and I would pick it up and do a little work from time to time. I finally finished inletting, sweated on a front ramp, blued, and installed the Williams peep 2 years ago. I knew from firing it right after I got it that the chamber was pretty loose (even for an Enfield). As my final task, I have to fit a better barrel. I recently bought a nice one for $40 from Numrich, so now I have to work the new one up and do the replacement. The chamber is much tighter, and I look for better accuracy and more reloads per case. I'll put an 11 deg. crown on this barrel, I think. But the gun is light, the bolt is slick, and the stock fits. It is already a fun rifle to shoot, and will no doubt be more so with the new barrel. I have had hours of enjoyment just tinkering with it.

 

[firearmnut]

I like how if you look for a bubba'd Enfield you can get one for $150. It may not have the history of a non bubba'd one but it is the best low cost rifle you can get until you have to get ammo lol.

 

[ball3006]

Being a milsurp junkie, I look for them at the gun shows around here. There is at least one a month. I have not seen a stock Enfield under 300 bucks in several years. Mosin Nagants can be had for 100 bucks or so. If you want a short Mosin Nagant, buy one of the short versions......don't cut up a stock military rifle.....chris3

 

[BrocLuno]

Iron and wood - it was metal shop for the Military once and now it's metal shop for us civilians. Jeez guys, there are Millions of either out there. One or hundred more or less won't make a hill of beans. Do what you want. If it works out great If not, get another and try again

 

[bobbo]

Thank you all very much for your help... I ended up with a BSA 1919 No. 1 Mk III* which somebody had hacked the stock and thrown most of the hardware away on. The bore is nicer than most Mosins I've seen, so not bad for under $100. So far, this project will come in far chepaer than pretty much any wood-stocked commercial bolt gun I've been able to find (new or used), so I'm a happy camper... yaaaaay!

Now I need to scope it (my eyesight isn't fantastic, and neither is that of the other, older, family members I would let shoot the gun). I see several options (in order of final cost):
1) The ATI "No Gunsmith" mount, of which I've heard plenty of horror stories, but I have a scope (old steel Weaver K4) and rings for it already.

2) the Weaver tip-off mount and spending $25 to have the gunsmith do it (while it's in to be shortened to 18-20"). I have a scope, but would need new rings. I don't care about the D&T, as the gun's already not original.

3) The scout mount off eBay which you heat up and smack down the barrel, as shown at Surplusrifle.com. It's reversible, but the mount is $80 and I'd need a different scope (and a good scout scope isn't cheap).

Which method would you choose, and why?