Mosin vs Mauser, my take...

[Midnight]

I'm sure this has been discussed before, but I thought I would give my opinion on the matter to see what others thought. Over the past few months I've had a lot of experience with my M44 Mosin Nagant and my M48 Yugo Mauser. They are rifles that had the same purpose, and were made about the same time. Here's the pro's/cons/differences I perceive between them:

Mauser 98:
pros:
can hold 5 rounds in the magazine and allow bolt to slide over
strong action
large-bore caliber (7.92x57)

cons:
large recoil
heavy rifle
long, bent bolt (although some have straight bolts)

Mosin-Nagant:
pros:
single stack magazine gives a smooth action
sufficient caliber (7.62x54)
only moderately heavy
short, straight bolt

cons:
only holds 4 rounds with bolt sliding over
rimmed cartridge makes proper loading essential


With all this said, I believe I like the Mosin-Nagant design better. Another aspect that is neither pro nor con is that the rear ring of the Nagant action is open at the top. This makes cleaning, inserting the bolt, and working the action much easier than the Mauser closed-ring design. Another feature that is worth mentioning is that the Mosin-Nagant's ejector is built into the bolt (if memory serves me, someone please confirm this). This means that a faulty ejector requires replacing the bolt. The Mauser's ejector is secured to the side of the action, and would be easily replaced.

Thoughts?

 

[M2HMGHB]

Actually you got that mixed up. The Mosin-Nagant has the ejector on the side of the reciever and the Mauser is on the bolt. The Nagant also has something called an Interuptor Ejector(spelling?) which is part of the ejector. I don't remember the exact function of this part but I do remember it was not that difficult to replace once you figured it out, it took me about 15 mins to figure it out then it was done. The Nagant is, in my opinion, the easiest bolt action rifle to take care of and the easiest to fix.

Scott

 

[David4516]

Another advantage the Mauser has is all the replacement barrels you can buy. You can convert a Mauser to another caliber, and have lots of options.

I think it would be really cool to convert a Nagant to .30-40 Krag caliber...

 

[Dave Markowitz]

The Mosin-Nagant has an interruptor which holds the second round in the mag down to prevent jams from the cartridge rims. It's the little tab of metal on the left side of the mag inside the receiver. It's there so you do not need to worry about how you load the rounds into the mag.

I own three Mosins and four Mauser 98-actioned rifles. The Mausers have much smoother actions and the safeties are much easier to work. That being said, the Mosin is at least as rugged and reliable as any Mauser.

 

[coldshot03/04]

I sold mine today. But I'd say the Mosin Nagant M39.

 

[Stinger]

It's there so you do not need to worry about how you load the rounds into the mag.

I may have misunderstood what you wrote, but I believe you are saying that the cartridge interrupter won't allow rounds to be inserted improperly.

That, however, is not the case. Mosins will rimlock if the mag is not loaded properly.

Stinger

 

[Tamara]

The last time I shot my 1944-vintage 91/30, the first shot caused the magazine floorplate to pop open and disgorge its contents upon the ground.

I bet that would've been a high pucker factor moment if the huns had been overrunning my LP/OP's...

 

[cracked butt]

The mauser ejector is mouted on the left side of the receiver- part of the bolt release, and can be replaced by removing one screw. The Extratro on the other hand is on the bolt.

The Mosin triggers are downright horrible, except for the Finnish M39's which were done right

The mosin is a rugged, simple bolt action, but I'd take a mauser 98 any day.

 

[AC]

Stinger, If you are getting rim lock I believe your interrupter isn't working correctly. If the rounds in the magazine have rimms of the upper cartridges behind those of rounds below it shouldn't matter. The way the interrupter works is the top round pops up and the interrupter holds the others down. The top round is high enough over the next round that it can't rim lock.

 

[telewinz]

How points of view change, I have an American Rifle magazine from the early 60's (cold war period) that gives a history of the Mosin Nagant and states that they are "poorly made and should not be fired". Its interesting to read old magazines and how they viewed the same weapon 40 years ago.

 

[Tamara]

The Mosin would still be pretty much my last choice among my bolt-actions to want to have to do serious work with. Crudely made, with a bolt that's slow to operate, they make up for it with a magazine that's slow to load without stripper clips, and by offering the exciting possibility of rimlock.

My first & favorite bolt action is the US M1917 "Enfield", since it has actual, you know, sights on it (it's a thousand wonders anybody ever got killed on a battlefield with your average early 20th Century bolt-action rifle; that rear notch may have been shallow, but that front post sure was huge! ) It's closely followed by the Lee-Enfield, a No4MkI, preferably, as they had sights, too (A fast bolt action and a 10-round magazine cover a multitude of sins.)

 

[BowStreetRunner]

wow tamara i was just about to defend the mosin design
after your arguement it would be hard to do
i love how easy it is to take apart and clean though
and the mosin design and its cartridge have outlasted all of its contemporaries (the mosin design being used in Korea and Vietnam)
that being said if i was going to have to choose a bolt action rifle to defend my life it would probably be a SMLE
BSR

 

[Oleg Volk]

I second the M1917. Mosin bolts tend to be tough to open, and the sights aren't all that great. But the world sniping record is held by a Finnish sniper who mostly used a Mosin

 

[Stinger]

If you are getting rim lock I believe your interrupter isn't working correctly

You may very well be right, but if that is the case, I have never shot one that worked properly. In my experience, if you load one cartridge rim behind the previous one, you are gonna have problems. I always make a conscious effort to load cartridges correctly to avoid such problems, and thank heavens that those paper targets don't shoot back.


YMMV of course,

Stinger

 

[goon]

ANyone who thinks a Mosin-Nagant is the lowest of the low should try out a Finnish Mosin-Nagant.
Mine is deadly accurate.
I have experienced rim locks with both it and my 91/30, but you can minimize this by being careful when you load it.
Purely from the standpoint of being a weapon, the Mauser is better.
But there are lots of dead nazis in the ground because of the Mosin-Nagant.

BTW- there are still Mosin-Nagants in service in Afghanistan. That means that the Mosin-Nagant has seen service in three different centuries.
It really has outlasted its contemporaries.

 

[Tamara]

goon,

ANyone who thinks a Mosin-Nagant is the lowest of the low should try out a Finnish Mosin-Nagant.

Once upon a time, an American sports car racing team was setting up some ex-streetgoing Porsche 911's to compete against purpose-built race cars. When someone asked them what they hoped to achieve, one guy responded "You can't make a race horse out of a pig, but you can make a damned fast pig."

BTW- there are still Mosin-Nagants in service in Afghanistan. That means that the Mosin-Nagant has seen service in three different centuries.

There are Mausers and Enfields still killing folks world-wide, too. Anything that's been given away free to client states or left scattered around former colonial empires will be killin' folks long after it was a front-rank design.

As far as actual production/service dates with moderately large regional powers, the Mauser, Mosin and Enfield lingered well into the late '50s/early '60s, and beyond that in the service of insurgents and irregulars.



*sigh*

Don't get me wrong, but I thought this kind of "What I bought is best!" stuff was largely the province of the semiauto pistol forum. I have ten different milsurp bolt-action rifles in a half-dozen different formats. Just because one may be slightly better than another doesn't mean both won't kill someone deader'n a hammer...

 

[Greg L]

I have an American Rifle magazine from the early 60's (cold war period) that gives a history of the Mosin Nagant and states that they are "poorly made and should not be fired". Its interesting to read old magazines and how they viewed the same weapon 40 years ago.

Of course they were also able to buy surplus Garands & Springfields for about $20 at the same time so they were probably a bit jaded .

Hopefully our kids won't be having a similar conversation in 30 years about the Jennings that we were laughing at .

Greg

 

[Bowlcut]

Tam you used my favorite raceing quote ever its my sig in my email to this very day.

But I have loved my m44, all 300 rounds Ive put though it since I bought it. Only 2 malfunctions so far. Two hard to open bolts for some reason, some attribute it to wolf ammo. It just hard to be smacked REALLY hard to open. My mosin is pretty accuate for me which I am not. Ive rappid fired as fast as I could, no rim lock, even fast reloading no rimlock. Now I cant opperate the stupid stripper clips to save my life.....but I will take people's word as if they work or not.

I still want an m1917.....but ive got too many wants anymore. think next rifle will be something of the garand name

 

[HarryB]

Stiff Bolt

My VKT M91 went out to the range for the first time over the weekend. Occasionally the bolt was next to impossible to open. I had to hold the stock on its side on the bench, stand, and put my considerable weight on the bolt handle to open it up. Other times it opened just fine. Was using Barnhal (sp?) ammo. Any thoughts?

By the way, aside from the bolt, this rifle is one fast pig!

My favorite mil surp is my K-31 with a scout mounted scope...

 

[Mannlicher]

The Mosin Nagant is fast developing a cult following. Frankly, if they were all that good, they would still be front line weapons. Of course that is not the case.....................

Make mine a Mauser, any day, for any purpose.

 

[BowStreetRunner]

well there are a lot of weapons that were really good back in their heyday that arent front line weapons today
i dont see many Garands floating around on battlefields now (not to say that there arent-but there are mosins too being used in far flung fields of battle)
thats doesnt mean the garand was a bad gun because it isnt used anymore.....just because its not a frontline weapon NOW doesnt mean it was NEVER any good
yeah, the design is crude, it looks ugly next to a nice '03 springfield or 98K mauser, but it did what it needed to do.....it got the job done...and after all, isnt the best testament to a weapon saying that it did what it was designed to do?
BSR

 

[benEzra]

HarryB,

Try cleaning the forward bolt locking surfaces (right behind the chamber--you'll need some sort of angled brush or maybe a toothbrush) and then greasing them, as well as all the other bolt locking surfaces (especially the forward ones). Many old Mosins were used with corrosive ammo, and while the Finns were religious about cleaning them, it's hard to get powder residue out of the forward bolt-locking recesses in the field. If the surfaces are a tiny bit rough due to surface corrosion, the bolt will tend to stick after the gun is fired. This will smooth up with lubrication and use. Also don't forget to lube the little angled area at the front of the ejection port area where the bolt handle cams the bolt backward when you lift it. I have a Polish M44 with this problem, but it's getting better.

Mannlicher,
Few of the milsurp bolt-actions are front-line weapons anymore, even our excellent M1903, due to obsolescence. However, I believe the present Finnish sniper rifle is a Mosin Nagant variant, so at least some Mosins are in front-line service.

Tamara,
My 1942 VKT M39 is one of those "fast pigs." I'm not all that good with iron sights, and I've put four shots of Wolf 148-gr FMJ into 1 3/8" at 100 yards from the bench. Receiver date is 1905, and it still has the Imperial Russian proof mark (double headed eagle) on the receiver.

 

[Sir Galahad]

The Mosin was made to function and survive across the vast area of Russia and Central Asia. That's a lot of different terrian, weather, and environment from blistering hot to well below freezing. That's why it's "crude". There are accounts of German Mausers freezing up due to a lack of cold weather lubricants while Mosins were firing away because of that "crude" action. People who weren't at Stalingrad can scoff now, but, in the end, the Mosin killed people by the droves and the caliber continues to do so in the Dragunov. Russians are practical people and the Soviet system was pragmatic as far as weapons go. The Mosin was adopted under the Czar, but the Soviets improved it. If anyone ever saw a real Soviet copy of Pravda, you know it was made on very thin paper. Why? To roll mahorka up in to make cigarettes. Things in the Soviet system had to last as far as weapons go. Practicality. No, it's not a P-17, or .03, or Lee-Enfield. (Yeah, and find those rifles at the price a Mosin in good shape can be had for. Shoot those at the price 762x54 goes for.) But those weapons never had to serve in the hands of Uzbeks, Kazahks, and Caucasians (yes, I said that) either. If they had, those fine rifles would not have done better. Mosins are an excellent value and if you do your part, they are accurate. If the Soviets were making crude junk all those years, I guess we were all crapping our pants over nothing from 1950 to 1990. I guess all those Nike sites (anyone remember the "BOMBER GAP"???), missile silos, air raid sirens, Conelrad network and fallout shelters were just put there for fun. People laugh now, but they weren't laughing in 1980.

 

[Tamara]

I didn't know you knew the "Internationale"!

Dude, it's okay. You like your Mosin, we understand; no need to summon up ghosts of the Red Menace...

As far as "serving over a variety of terrain and in a variety of hands", you sure you want to make that claim for the Mosin, vis a vis the Mauser and Enfield? Bear in mind that the Mauser was used by upwards of fifty-six countries, in all types of climates and by all different types of soldiers, from Norway to Nicaragua, Iraq to Ireland, while the Enfield saw service in the hands of everyone from Indian conscripts to British commandos.

The Mosin wasn't replaced before WWII (even though it was the oldest rifle in service with a great power) because, well, they really couldn't afford to, and besides, nobody else seemed to be replacing their rifles either.

 

[Ian]

I've used all three (and own two Mausers and an Enfield) and the Enfield is by far my favorite (assuming they're all in military configuration). Rimlock is a possibility, but using a bit of care when loading up your stripper clips will prevent it. Get one with a battle peep sight and an adjustable precision peep sight and you're set. I like mine so much that I just picked up a neat-o tac sling for it.