Thanks. The .45-70 is a very forgiving cartridge, especially when using black powder or substitutes. Easy and fun to load as well as to shoot, IMO. One of my most favorite cartridges.
Most inherently accurate rifle cartridge?
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Thanks. The .45-70 is a very forgiving cartridge, especially when using black powder or substitutes. Easy and fun to load as well as to shoot, IMO. One of my most favorite cartridges.
The bench rest guys usually go with low recoil rounds too. After all if you're shooting at 100 meters you don't need a 300 win mag.
I understand that great shooters set great records with these cartridges. Does that mean that these cartridges are inherently accurate? Or Does this mean that those calibers have the highest accuracy potential? For example: there is one sweet spot to where it will shoot .2 moa or many loading a where it can achieve moa or smaller...
I don't think anyone answered this...
I reload .243 occasionally, and I believe you can get 58gr - 100gr bullets that should shoot OK out of 1:10 twist barrels.
There are some VLD bullets in 105 and 115 that require a faster twist.
.22 Long Rifle Match? For a cartridge dating back to 1887, rim-fire priming, a hollow-based, heeled, nearly pure lead bullet, with heavy crimp & outside lube..it does pretty good!
I have had rifles in 30-30, 30-06, .270, .243, 6.5x55, 7.62x39, 7.62x54, 22lr, and .22 hornet. All are more accurate than me.
On a bench, the most accurate at 100 yards is probably the .243.
On a bench, the most accurate at 100 yards is probably the .243.
I believe in the concept of inherently accurate cartridges. I think the balance between case capacity and bore volume has a lot to do with it.
At the top of the game is the 6PPC. Then you have the 6BR and the wildcats made from it. Most of the 308 family do very well. The 7.62X39 is someplace in the 6PPC family tree. Most people associate it with rifles only capable of spraying out dinner plate size groups with imported ammo, but choosing good brass and using a good rifle, it does very well.
There is a lot about ballistics that I don't know. But, I don't think every cartridge has the same potential. Others have referred to the Benchrest game, and I think there is a reason that most of these guys use the cartridges that they do. Lightman
At the top of the game is the 6PPC. Then you have the 6BR and the wildcats made from it. Most of the 308 family do very well. The 7.62X39 is someplace in the 6PPC family tree. Most people associate it with rifles only capable of spraying out dinner plate size groups with imported ammo, but choosing good brass and using a good rifle, it does very well.
There is a lot about ballistics that I don't know. But, I don't think every cartridge has the same potential. Others have referred to the Benchrest game, and I think there is a reason that most of these guys use the cartridges that they do. Lightman
I don't think there is. However some cartridges have charististics that would make it more difficult to hold the same level of consistency of others especially as it pertains to resizing.
For example a case with a pronounced and fairy steep shoulder angle is going to be much more easily held to a very precise headspace as a long shallow sloping shoulder as would be found in the h&h cartridges or 30-30
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They use the cartridges they do because they don't want to use MORE than they need. There is no point in burning 50 grains of powder when 30 will do the job.
6mm's in gerneral, 6mm Dasher, 6mmPPC, 6mmBR, 6x47 ect. Seems the 6mms are always breaking records in all distances.
According to my Grandpa and his 85 years of experience, the .222 Remington is about as good as it gets, but I also agree that the .243 (or really anything in the 6.5 mm range) is going to drive tacks all day long.
Just from my own personal experience, the 22-250 has been able to put all groups inside a nickel...and many inside a dime.
Just from my own personal experience, the 22-250 has been able to put all groups inside a nickel...and many inside a dime.
I don't like the phrase "inherently accurate" nearly so much as I like the phrase inherently forgiving.
Some cartridges are quite forgiving in regard to rifle quality and lack of attention paid during load development. Other cartridges are like spiteful ex-wives in that regard.
You can use an unforgiving cartridge to wring out exceptional accuracy, but it takes much more time and attention during the load development process. Conversely, you can dump a nearly predetermined formula of components into a forgiving cartridge and it will perform well out of nearly anything.
Take a 308 Winchester for example. A 175SMK in front of 44gr Varget, winchester brass, and a cci200 will almost always yield a sub-moa performance out of nearly any 308 bolt rifle that is soundly built.
There are several possible explanations for why this is. Those of you familiar with the OCW load development method can get behind that. Nearly magical how there are "pet loads" for certain cartridges that seem to shoot extremely well out of nearly anything they are loaded in. This is the theory that I subscribe to.
Some cartridges are quite forgiving in regard to rifle quality and lack of attention paid during load development. Other cartridges are like spiteful ex-wives in that regard.
You can use an unforgiving cartridge to wring out exceptional accuracy, but it takes much more time and attention during the load development process. Conversely, you can dump a nearly predetermined formula of components into a forgiving cartridge and it will perform well out of nearly anything.
Take a 308 Winchester for example. A 175SMK in front of 44gr Varget, winchester brass, and a cci200 will almost always yield a sub-moa performance out of nearly any 308 bolt rifle that is soundly built.
There are several possible explanations for why this is. Those of you familiar with the OCW load development method can get behind that. Nearly magical how there are "pet loads" for certain cartridges that seem to shoot extremely well out of nearly anything they are loaded in. This is the theory that I subscribe to.
accuracy is relative.. i mean, a bullet can arc like a cannonball through the air and still be incredibly accurate so long as it hits on target frequently, if you want something thatll shoot flatter youd want to look for velocity, and ballistic coefficiency... that being said, if a bullet has more mass to it with ballistic coefficiency being equal, its going to be less effecteed by the wind, therefor hit a smaller group size more consistantly, this is why 300 and 338 caliber magnums are so popular for accuracy.
since most these magnum rounds are incredibly expensive to shoot, theres one thats relatively cheap to shoot vs the others, thats the .300 magnum.. with a 180 grain bullet youd have a very, very potent extreme-range rifle
if i wanted something on a shorter action or even in a semi, id probably go with a 6.5 creedmor / 260 remington or one of the other similar cartridges... the 6.5 bullet in this size action offers ballistic coefficiencies as high as 243s, but with more mass, too
if i wanted to go for a really short platform on an AR15 size action, 6.5 grendel or 6x45mm would probably be my choice for accuracy
since most these magnum rounds are incredibly expensive to shoot, theres one thats relatively cheap to shoot vs the others, thats the .300 magnum.. with a 180 grain bullet youd have a very, very potent extreme-range rifle
if i wanted something on a shorter action or even in a semi, id probably go with a 6.5 creedmor / 260 remington or one of the other similar cartridges... the 6.5 bullet in this size action offers ballistic coefficiencies as high as 243s, but with more mass, too
if i wanted to go for a really short platform on an AR15 size action, 6.5 grendel or 6x45mm would probably be my choice for accuracy
to me inherently accurate means a lot of people can shoot it accurately.the 6mm and 6.5 rounds come to mind there.low recoil, not as low as the 223 but with hevier bullets to buck wind better.with better BC.but heck everyone has a opinion on this.
this is why im starting to like the .308 based 6.5mm cartridges.. the 6.5x55mm offered great accuracy long range, light recoil, easy for many people to be accurate with... the 6.5mm cartridges based on the .308 offers this in a shorter action, with more rifle choices (semi automatics included) and you can easily convert .308 brass.. my choice would go for one of these, or to a 6.5 grendel (for pure accuracy.. for general purpose including good accuracy but better performance in other roles id probably personally go 6.8) but purely for inherent accuracy.. 6.5 creedmor or 6.5 grendel
Now we are talking about two different things. On one hand we are talking about a cartridges internal ballistics and how forgiving it is, and on the other hand we are talking about whether or not a certain cartridge is easy for shooters to manage and thereby use accurately.
338LM rifles are probably the most returned/resold rifles on earth, followed closely by 50BMG. The more recoil a rifle produces, the harder it is for the shooter to manage that recoil and the harder it is for them to produce repeatable accuracy. Lots of people buy a 338LM because they want to get started in long range shooting, only to be plagued with accuracy problems. It's a lot harder to develop a 1/2 MOA load for a 338LM than it is for a 6.5 creedmoor. The latter also is much easier for non-expert shooters to drive properly.
There is another factor at play also: Velocity.
The less time a bullet spends in the barrel, the less chance the shooter will cause error. Hence why people find 22-250's and 204's very accurate. Light recoil combined with 4000fps instead of medium recoil and 2800fps makes a huge difference in dwell time and how far the rifle can be moved before the bullet has left the bore. Ask a smallbore rimfire competitor how difficult it is to consistently hit a dime-sized target at 50yds!
338LM rifles are probably the most returned/resold rifles on earth, followed closely by 50BMG. The more recoil a rifle produces, the harder it is for the shooter to manage that recoil and the harder it is for them to produce repeatable accuracy. Lots of people buy a 338LM because they want to get started in long range shooting, only to be plagued with accuracy problems. It's a lot harder to develop a 1/2 MOA load for a 338LM than it is for a 6.5 creedmoor. The latter also is much easier for non-expert shooters to drive properly.
There is another factor at play also: Velocity.
The less time a bullet spends in the barrel, the less chance the shooter will cause error. Hence why people find 22-250's and 204's very accurate. Light recoil combined with 4000fps instead of medium recoil and 2800fps makes a huge difference in dwell time and how far the rifle can be moved before the bullet has left the bore. Ask a smallbore rimfire competitor how difficult it is to consistently hit a dime-sized target at 50yds!
Speedo66
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I'm thinking inherently accurate would pertain to a bullet that has the close to perfect ratio of length to width that allows it to maintain a close to perfect trajectory. This would allow the bullet to be accurate "inherently" from almost anything it's fired from.
While the 6mmBR is extremely accurate, let's face it, it's almost always fired from a gun that has been tuned to within an inch of it's life. Not really a fair comparison.
I would go with the 6.5x55 Swede. This cartridge has a long line of admirers who find it's accuracy amazing, with most rounds being fired from run of the mill untuned military rifles. I believe it has the proper ballistic ratio to impart it's fabled accuracy inherently.
While the 6mmBR is extremely accurate, let's face it, it's almost always fired from a gun that has been tuned to within an inch of it's life. Not really a fair comparison.
I would go with the 6.5x55 Swede. This cartridge has a long line of admirers who find it's accuracy amazing, with most rounds being fired from run of the mill untuned military rifles. I believe it has the proper ballistic ratio to impart it's fabled accuracy inherently.
You can get all the 6.5 swede has to offer with a 6.5 creedmoor or 260 remington. ... and you don't need a long action to do it.
I will interject here however, that I own and shoot both the 6.5 Swede and .260 Remington.You can get all the 6.5 swede has to offer with a 6.5 creedmoor or 260 remington. ... and you don't need a long action to do it.
The long action hinders what exactly? I see no situation where its an issue.
While its not an accuracy issue, reloading or buying good 260 stuff is expensive. I can practice more with the Swede...and that DOES help accuracy, or rather, my shooting.
Also, the .260 Remington generates a bit more recoil energy in the same weights as the 6.5 Swede. Once again, not an accuracy issue. Just an aside.
While both are accurate, I'm coming away from the bench more impressed with the Swede: its soft shooting, I can work the bolt fast enough if needed even though its a longer throw, and I can afford to practice with it much more often due to it being $1 a round for PPU versus nearly $2.50 for Remington. Obviously, I've acquired more brass for the Swede, its available if I need more, and just plain cheaper. I do, however, like 6.5mm cartridges.
I've no experience, sadly, with the Creedmore other than research. I can't compare.
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