My 1911's are now Safe Queens.

[BluesBear]

JohnSka said;
No human has reflexes fast enough to pull the trigger on a gun anywhere near the cyclic rate of a typical auto pistol.

[voice=Ed McMahon]You are CORRECT Sir![/voice]


My Father bought a brand new .45 Colt Commander around 1950. The instruction sheet that came with it stated that you could fire it 5 times a second. Now that's only 300RPM but I have never been able to pull the trigger in any 1911 pattern pistol faster than it could fire. Nor have I ever met or even heard of anyone who could.

Unless you've been down to see Mr Goodwrench and bought a set of Monroe Shocks and placed them inside your Ronco Shrink-o-matic and then had them installed one in your 1911 for super slowmo functioning...
You ain't gonna have to wait for the slide to close.
:banghead:

 

[Son of John]

XD in .45

Wasn't Springfield going to put the XD out in .45ACP? This would make a pretty good gun if you could get the 5" barrel. With the grip safety of the XD and the SA trigger you would have.....Hey

something almost like a 1911 !



No kidding, I would like to have one of these pistols in any caliber. But to be completely honest I would like to have all pistols in all calibers.

 

[HSMITH]

.14 splits are common. .11 is possible with some work and .10 has been recorded MANY times and is not real reason to get wound up. A STOCK 1911 won't get anywhere near .11, more like .17-.2 seconds.

If YOU can't do it please don't be ignorant enough to tell someone else it isn't possible, it just shows how ignorant you in fact are. It amazes me that some of the supposed "authorities" have no clue on some subjects but it never stops them from posting. Well, when the tide goes out it is plain to see who is swimming naked, isn't it?

If you don't believe me fine, talk to the three gunners and the IPSC shooters. The only thing I have on file right now is THIS article on shotguns. Sheesh, Ed McGivern shot 5 shots from a &^$$ REVOLVER in 9/20ths of a second! FULL stroke DOUBLE ACTION, .09 or so splits. Probably a waste of breath, but at least the truth is out.

 

[BluesBear]

Name calling is not a very good way to showcase intelligence.

HSMITH, since I (and others) are so ignorant and you are so bloody smart, show me (us), anyone, anywhere who has proved that they can pull a trigger faster than a full size Colt .45 Automatic can keep up with.

Forget split times. Forget hypothetical cyclic rates of fire. Show us anyone who can do it.

Put up or shut up. Either will suit me fine.


And speaking of intelligent pontification.
What kind of load in a .40 have you found (COUGHimaginedCOUGH that produces 675ft/lbs of energy? I can't find any commercial 10mm load that breaks 600.

 

[Coltdriver]

I have to agree with you. I fired thousands of rounds through my 1911's but after I got an H&K USP in .45 my 1911's became safe queens then they became the basis for the purchase of new guns. I still have a few and I am selling them off slowly.

They were great for learning about pistols and getting to work on a timeless design. Everyone should own at least one at some time in their life.

But compared to a truly modern gun like an H&K they do show their age.

Not a thing wrong with them, just that for my use the more modern designs are better.

 

[Boats]

Yep them "modern designs" rule. I just hate it when this happens to my 1911s:

Oh wait, I 've never seen this happen to any 1911.

 

[Slowhand]

On page 23 of The Gun Digest Book of the 1911, Patrick Sweeney says:

"I have been nearby on three different occaisons when a 1911 'ran away'. That is, something went wrong and it emptied it's magazine in one burst. The sound is faster than the fastest machinegun I've heard, at 1,200 rpm. Even with the fastest shooters, the 1911 is spending most of it's time waiting for you to get your trigger finger in gear, and shoot the next shot."

I think a 0.17-0.20 sounds pretty slow for a stock 1911. I can just about do 0.20 with a stock 1911 on a close target (usually around 0.23) and I don't have the impression I'm getting anywhere near the limit of the gun. The hard part for me is getting the front sight back on target.

 

[BluesBear]

Coltdriver, do you have any other blued Colts in your safe that need a new home?

 

[Master Blaster]

No human has reflexes fast enough to pull the trigger on a gun anywhere near the cyclic rate of a typical auto pistol.

Thats why Jerry Miculek set the speed shooting record with a


SMITH AND WESSON REVOLVER.

Sorry there are a couple of Humans who can pull the trigger faster than the 1911 or any other auto pistol can cycle and hit the target everytime too.

 

[McNutt]

I'm not going to try and debate whether or not a man is faster than his gun because I have absolutely no idea. But I am curious as to why anybody would consider a gun's cyclical speed when purchasing it for anything other than world-record speed shooting attempts. I can't imagine a 1911 not being fast enough for anybody. It might be, but it would be interesting to see what that person is trying to do with his gun.

 

[HSMITH]

Blues Bear, since you called me a liar and not the other way around the burden of proof is on you. It's not like you would believe what I told you anyway. I would suggest you call some 1911 gurus that you would believe, maybe send some competitive shooters an email. This has been covered in the past and on several websites. You go figure it out, I'm not in the habit of calling another man a liar because I can't do what he said he can and I'm not going to waste another second educating you on this subject.

 

[Rob96]

What kind of load in a .40 have you found (COUGHimaginedCOUGH that produces 675ft/lbs of energy? I can't find any commercial 10mm load that breaks 600

I was wondering this very thing myself. I troied finding factory load data that would support this, but not even Corbon hits that energy level. Don't give me handload stats, as there is no way to verify that.

 

[Sean Smith]

There is no .40 S&W factory ammo that will give you 600 ft-lbs from a Glock 22. It doesn't exist. In factory ammo in .40 S&W, 500 is very hot. He no doubt has his own handloads that haven't blown his gun up yet, and so are "safe."

 

[Whitey]

I think my thread was hijacked.

 

[DrDremel]

Pistols firing at full auto rates are usually 1100-1400 rpm depending on the pistol and the caliber. 1911s that are full-auto fire at at least 1100 rpm. At that speed, if two rounds are in the gun when you fire it, it will be hard to tell if it was one or two from the noise and in some cases the recoil as well.

 

[Marshall]

Sorry, it's long. Maybe helpful though. I realize this is Winchester Ammo only but, it can be used as a guide.

BOLD = Muzzle Energy

40 S&W S401 165 4 Supreme Expansion Technology PP 1130 1041 977 468 397 349


40 S&W S40 180 4.00 Supreme Expansion Technology PP 1010 9540 909 408 364 330


40 S&W X40SWSTHP 155 4.00 Silvertip Hollow Point PP 1205 1096 1018 500 414 357


40 S&W USA40SW 165 - Full Metal Jacket-Flat Nose - 1060 1001 - 412 367 -

40 S&W WC401 165 - Brass Enclosed Base - 1130 1054 - 468 407 -


40 S&W WC402 180 - Brass Enclosed Base - 990 943 - 392 356 -


40 S&W Q4238 180 - Full Metal Jacket T 990 936 - 390 350 -


40 S&W USA40JHP 180 - Jacketed Hollow Point - 1010 954 - 408 364 -


10mm

10mm Automatic X10MMSTHP 175 5.50 Silvertip Hollow Point PP 1290 1141 1037 649 506 418

 

[nero45acp]

ZZZZZ ZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZ

 

[Whitey]

Not only hijacked, but de-railed also!

 

[HSMITH]

Whitey, I apologize for your thread getting hijacked even though it wasn't my fault.

He no doubt has his own handloads that haven't blown his gun up yet, and so are "safe."

Sean, we have gone over this in the past. Since you undoubtedly know more than the entire ballistics lab at Hodgdon powder why don't you enlighten us as to how my loads are unsafe? I'm among the most curious to know how you come about such enlightening data that a ballistics labratory replete with pressure barrels and all does not.

Rob, they are handloads, right out of the Hodgdon data. Data that has not changed in over 4 years, and that Hodgdon will support in writing if you send them an email. Look at the Longshot loads for the Nosler 135 grain bullet.

FYI, the cyclic rate of fire for a 1911 is nowhere near 1100, it is more like 300-350. Timing plays a part in it but that is another subject all together.

 

[Ky Larry]

Could someone please tell me why I should give a sh** about the cyclic rate of a 1911-type pistol? What ever it is, it's obviously faster than I can get back on target so why is it important in the real world. Thank you.

 

[tommytrauma]

Wow. I wonder if this was the type of exchange Al Gore pictured when he invented the internet.



Whitey, I went through pretty much the same experience. Bought a SA 1911 compact, tuned it perfectly, spent bucks on a handfull of wilson mags for it, ordered a nice holster... I was set. Then, while browsing at the local fun store, I picked up a XD. Now my 1911 sits in the gun locker.

 

[Whitey]

TT, it sounds like we share the EXACT same story. I too bought a SA Compact. Bought a Sparks holster, a mag pouch, belt, etc. Once I put that XD in my hand I was sold. I'll probably buy the XD-45 when it comes out too.

 

[Tamara]

Boats,

Oh wait, I 've never seen this happen to any 1911.

You need to shoot them more, then.

(Incidentally, wooden grips tend to leave unpleasant splinters in your hand when you have a nasty case failure... )


I love 1911's, too. I sold all my other autopistols (Glock, SIG, Browning, HK, Beretta, et cetera) to buy more of them, but let's not get carried away, okay?

(PS: Have you ever heard of "Superface"? )

 

[Tamara]

HSMITH,

FYI, the cyclic rate of fire for a 1911 is nowhere near 1100, it is more like 300-350.

Spoken like someone who's never had an out-of-spec disconnector.

(NOTE: Round three usually winds up in the ceiling. Try and let go before round four or five, since by then there's a good chance that the bore has swung dangerously close to 180*. )

 

[HSMITH]

Uhhh Tamara, been there and done that. Might have even been on purpose the second time if that weren't illegal...
It isn't that hard to control. Sheesh, if the disconnector is that far out of whack you will blow a case web out long before the cyclic rate jumps up more than 50 rounds per minute. FYI, I have built more than a couple 1911's from bare frames up, and played with combinations that are probably plainly unhealthy. I honestly don't know what the total count is, easily 15 and probably 20 different 1911's in the last 10 years I have had. I'm NOT guessing.......

You are right about the wood grips though, NASTY splinters.....