My savage 10FP-LE2 didn't shoot very well

[ShootAndHunt]

Finally getting a chance yesterday to shoot my new bought Savage 10FP-LE2 chambered in .308 Win, I grabbed a white box Winchester .308 Win (7.62x51mm) FMJ (147 gr.) for this trip. Since this is a new gun, I carefully broke in the barrel for the first 10 rounds, then I began to shoot 3 shots for group. This rifle is a pleasure to shoot, nice trigger and modest recoil.

However, It is really disapointting when I found that the group is not very well. The 3 shots often came out within 1.5" circle at 100 yds, and occasionaly there weresome fliers like shot which could be 2 inch away, and I didn't think all these fliers were my fault, since I am not recoil sensitive (I could constantly shoot my Winchester M70 .270 under 1 MOA, and that rifle kicks much harder than this one, plus its trigger is not tuned too.)

This really surprised me, I was in hope this could be my sub-half-MOA rifle for long-range precision shooting. I checked the action scews and the ring screws, and they all seemed pretty tight . Could you guys help me to find out what could went wrong? Should I change to different ammunition with different weight?

The basic configuration of this rifle:
Savage 10FP-LE2 standard systhentic stock, 26" heavy barrel, 1 in 10" twist rate
Leupold one piece base, Leupold high ring
Tasco 2.5 x 10 x 42 target/varmint scope
Winchester white box .308 Win 147 gr. FMJ

Thanks,

 

[Bridger]

I'm certainly no precision rifle expert, but my understanding would be to try some different ammunition. I think that 168 or so grains is the .308 standard, and even so, different brands of ammo shoot different groups.

 

[W Turner]

Like Bridger said, try some premium ammo in it first before giving up on it. Federal Gold Medal Match might be a good place to start.


W

 

[steelhead]

It could be a multitude of things but here are a few.

Ammo is definitly a good place to start but I'm more inclined to say it is the scope. The Tasco's have had some spotty QC issues. I originally had the same scope, but in 6X24, on my 10FLP. I had a very similar problem and found out the scope was busted. Not sure if it was out of the box or because of the recoil. When I received a new one, I put it on my .22 and it has been fine ever since. I then went to a Zeiss Conquest and now a Sightron SII and the rifle has grouped sub MOA with both.

Are you shooting from a rest? If not, do so and forget the scope for now. Pull the bolt and look down the inside of the barrel at the target. Align it so you know you will be on paper (you don't really care where - just so you are on it). Then from a solid rest (one that won't change POA with recoil) fire off you 3 rounds and see what happens.

Rifles will also shoot different MOA at different ranges. A rifle that shoots 1.5 MOA at 100 may shoot sub MOA at 200 yards and 1 MOA at 300. I don't know why but it happens. I don't think that is the current case but also keep that in mind.

Finally, check for crown damage.

 

[Lochaber]

The Savage 10FP guns have a fairly agressive twist and they like heavier bullets as far as I can tell. I reload and I use 168gr SMK or 168gr Nosler J4 with great success. My next batch is going to be even heavier as I suspect the Savage will like them even more, proabably 175gr SMKs and 190gr SMKs.

Federal gold match is very good factory ammo, and as far as I can tell they use 168gr SMK with federal match primers. I don't know for a fact what powder they use but it smells quite the same as the Varget I use for reloads and it would make sense too.

Try a primium heavy round and then see how your rifle shoots. Beside sthe Federal, the other round my gun liked was the Hornady Custom Ammunition 168 Gr. BTHP Match.

Loch

 

[raz-0]

My friend has a 10FP-LE1, and it does NOT like 147gr ammunition. It will actually even sometimes keyhole the light stuff. THe thing is capable of sub MOA groups with handloads, and MOA groups give or take with factory ammo.

Go grab a box of 168gr or 175gr stuff and give it another shot.

 

[Master Blaster]

Leupold one piece base, Leupold high ring

Check your base, the front screws Leupold supplied with mine were too short, and they pulled out of the receiver on recoil, I replaced the base with a weaver two piece, and had great groups from mine since.

You may want to do a search and read about my experience with the leupold one piece base and Leupold customer service which I posted here.

My guess is the base and the scope, I handload 168 sierra matchkings for mine, and I can easily get a 10 shot 1" group at 100 yards with it off a bipod. I have never tried the 147 gr bullets in it.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=79286&highlight=Savage+Leupold+mount


http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=82793&highlight=Savage+Leupold+weaver

 

[emc]

The advice that you've been given is quite good. The WW Box is not known as target ammo. While my FAL will shoot it reasonable well, my Savage 10FP shoots much better with the Federal Gold Match in either 168 gr or 175 gr ammo. Don't skimp on ammo, and watch your bench technique, also. That makes a BIG difference in the size of the groups.

FWIW,

emc

 

[ShootAndHunt]

Thanks a lot, guys!

II am going to try some heavier bullets first (168 or 175 gr.) since it looks like 1 in 10 twist is pretty tight.

If this didn't work, I will check the base and rings. Maybe go with a weaver, though I really like the windage adjustment ability on Leupold base, and I had very good experience with them on my other rifles.

I know the Tasco scope is kind of cheapy here, but I am saving my money for a Zeiss conquest 4.5 -14 with mildot rectile, so I bought this one before I could get the Zeiss (funny things is this Zeiss scope is almost the same price as my rifle , is there any other good scope which is not so expensive? (I want at least 10x magnification and a Mil-dot rectile). However, I was not sure whether the recoil killed the Tasco, since the recoil from this rifle is really modest, if this could still kill a Tasco, then I will never buy any optics from them!

I will report the result after my next range trip.

 

[Lochaber]

I have a Bushnell 3200 Elite fixed 10x MilDot on mine and I like it. It won't break the bank and it works. I have a Tasco 4x on my 22. Its holding up well. I use Weaver bases and rings.

Loch

 

[steelhead]

Tasco's aren't all bad but like I said they are hit and miss on QC.

Take a long hard look at the Sightron SII's. I think they are as good or better than the Nikons and Leupolds but for a lot less. A SII is what I currently have on my 10FLP. The Zeiss is now on my Remington 700 (After the Zeiss, you will think you are looking through a clouded fish tank when looking through the other brands).

Also, a good general rule of thumb, is too spend as much or more on the optics than you did on the rifle. There are exceptions, but on the whole, a rifle will shoot better than most scopes are capable of.

 

[Jonathan]

Tasco SS

 

[P0832177]

Do not jugde a gun till you fed it quality stuff as the rest of the posters have suggested. Check the rings and base! Then again get some better glass!
If the gun does not shoot with Lapua or Federal GMM, after you have checked the rings, bases, and glass then it is the gun?

 

[Shalako]

Ditto on the Ammo. I just can't get my savage 10fp to shoot well with anything but Federal Gold Medal Match in 175gr.
Milsurp = 2 MOA. Federal Premium Ballistic tips 150gr = 1.25 MOA. Fed GMM 175 gr 1/2 MOA and under. So, that's what I shoot. I need to try Hornady and Black Hills though.

 

[Jim Watson]

That imitation surplus is about good enough for shoot and clean breakin. Buy it some target or at least good hunting ammo to test accuracy.
Check at least the tightness of scope system screws before burning any more ammo.

Lochaber:

I was looking at that Bushnell 10X and it seemed almost too good to be true. How does it get along without parallax adjusment? I have taken up shooting at 600 - 1000 yards in F class and the 100 moa elevation listed for it is very attractive. Otherwise the ex-Tasco Super Sniper or a Leupold PR for twice and three times the money, respectively, look like alternatives.

 

[Bad Flynch]

1.5" is perfectly acceptable with the ammo quoted. That ammo should shoot in a 10" twist, but was never intended to be much better.

I have a 10FP that I have never shot. The other day, I got it out and cleaned it, thinking I would try the Accu-trigger. When I got done cleaning, I looked at the bore with a flashlight. Right inside the muzzle was a ding just like someone had take a ballpeen hammer and struck it. I will get it recrowned before I shoot it and when I shoot it, it will be with good handloads.

 

[ojibweindian]

The WWB .308 ammo is most likely your problem. I have tried handloads using Winchester .308 147 FMJ in a seemingly endless number of charge weights, and the best I could do was just under 2" at 100 yards.

I'd suggest trying several weights between 150 and 180 grains. Also, try different shapes, i.e. boat tail, spitzer, flat base.

My M70 prints 5/8" groups at 100 yards with a Hornady 150gr spire point. I didn't find that out for a few hundred rounds, though.

 

[hps1]

My vote is with those who suggested ammo change. Try the Fed. premium ammo using the 168 gr. Sierra Matchkings. Haven't seen too many rifles that would not perform well with that ammo.

The Tasco would be next on my list.

You asked about scopes, I have been very happy with Burris scopes and really like their ballistic plex reticle. Midway has specials on both the 3 X 9 and the 4.5 X 14 ballistic plex scopes (they alternate between the two from one month to the next, it seems). Basically, you buy the scope at their regular price ($199 for the 3 x9) and they include a 20 x 50 (IIRC)mini spotting scope free. I have quit taking my good (as in large) Kowa spotting scope to the range, the very small Burris works fine and is so handy that I keep it in the truck). You can check them out @ www.midwayusa.com

I have both the 4.5 x 14 and several 3 x 9's and they do the job nicely for me. Put the 4.5 x 14 on a Savage 10 FP in 223 (26" bbl) and it shoots sub moa 100 yd 5 shot groups with WW factory 53 gr hp ammo. Shot right at an inch w/ww white box. Working on handloads now and almost everything shoots sub moa. So far best is w/ Sierra 53 gr. hp (5/8" five shot 100 yd group) but have only tried a few loads using H335 powder and CCI primers. Lots of other combinations to try. One group showed promise using 55 gr. Nosler ballistic tips but had a flier (could very well have been shooter error). Need to do another check on this bullet.

Savage has a very good reputation for accuracy right out of the box, so would surprise me if the problem lies in the rifle (unless, like someone mentioned the crown had been damaged in shipping)

Best of luck in sorting it out.

Regards,
hps

 

[Lochaber]

I was looking at that Bushnell 10X and it seemed almost too good to be true. How does it get along without parallax adjusment? I have taken up shooting at 600 - 1000 yards in F class and the 100 moa elevation listed for it is very attractive.

I havent got the chance to to shoot it past 100yards, which is the longest range I have localy. I was planing a trip to a longer range but I got side tracked and I used the new scope to develop a load and play with my new trigger. At the 100 yard line the scope is great and I have nothing to complain about. How paralax will affect it a longer distances remains a mystery, at least for me. Others have reported no problems at self described long ranges but I do not have any personal experience to report.

Loch

 

[pendragon2]

savage ammunition

I have a savge 10 fp le2 as well. I found the best ammo to be Winchester Supreme Ballistic Silvertip in 168 grains. I've held 1/4 MOA groups with those.

 

[c_yeager]

I would think that 1.5MOA is about as good as one could possibly get with WWB. I bet that rifle will shoot REAL tight with some nice handloads.

 

[nipprdog]

since this thread that pendragon2 revived is NINE months old, maybe ShootandHunt will give us an update on how it shoots with premium ammo.

 

[HSMITH]

If you want to pick which cheek you hit on a gnat with that rifle you need to spend some money on glass. Probably more money than you spent for the rifle.

With good ammo and good glass a Savage that won't shoot is a rare bird.

That Leupold one piece base is as good as it gets, if it needs longer screws get longer screws but don't go to a weaker system.

 

[GunDog44]

It's not the Rifle

150gr is the lightest this rifle will shoot accurately (IMHO) I have settled on 150gr and 168gr. Also, my rifle (.308) did not start shooting well until the barrel was broken in. I do not follow the typical breakin procedures, as I found the shoot 1 clean, shoot 2 clean and so on made no difference what so ever, when compared to the old method (buy 20 rounds and shoot 'em all - then clean).
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b178/GunDog44/44001.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b178/GunDog44/12fv1002.jpg

 

[nipprdog]

psssst, GunDog, this thread is almost 1& 1/2 years old.