My Smith & Wesson M&P Compact Is Defective

[DHart]

pwrtool45... odds are your M&P will probably be fine, but don't be so sure that getting to 350 rounds means you're in the clear... it was around 350 to 400 rounds through my M&P 40 Compact before all my mag drop problems even began. For some owners it doesn't happen until an even higher round count. There's no denying that the M&P has a design problem with the mag catch... S&W has been trying different tweaks to the mag catch in an attempt to solve the mag drop problems that many people have had. Simply because some owners haven't (yet?) experienced mag drop problems doesn't mean the gun's design is home free... there's still work to be done to permanently put the mag drop problem with the M&P's "to bed". I'd say a couple of years from now we shouldn't be hearing ANY more about mag drop problems with the M&P. Sure hope not, anyway. With SIG's new P250 close to market, the M&P will have even stiffer competition to deal with.

I'm expecting my M&P 40 Compact back from S&W today (second trip back to them and 4 mag catch replacements so far) to correct the mag drop problem with my gun. They say my frame is all to specs. This time they tell me they've got a much harder surface on the metal engagement tab of the mag catch AND they've slightly enlarged the polymer body of the catch to tighten it's fit within the frame hole. The tech told me they think these very recent changes "should" bring an end to the mag drop problems they've been fighting. I sure hope so, but I'm reserved in my optimism because I think the mag catch spring also needs to be beefed up too... it's still, IMHO, just waaay too easy to release the mag on the M&P's.

S&W's customer service is clearly the leader of the industry... they've been exemplary in trying to deal with the problem... giving people free magazines and free night sights for their inconvenience in dealing with the problem. THis time they gave me a free set of night sights. And they pay shipping both ways. And they're turn around is quick. Wonderful customer service... now all they have to do is figure out (if they haven't quite yet) a PERMANENT fix to the mag drop problem!

 

[Coronach]

4 mag catches? Wow.

Was each of them a different design? Or were three of the mag releases the older, problematic design?

Mike

 

[DHart]

Mike... hard to tell. My initial mag catch had a small "2" on the underside of it... then S&W replaced it with one which had a "1", I couldn't really see any difference, in fact it's really tough to see much of any difference between any of the ones I've had. The newest ones I just received today have "1" on them but the number is rotated at a different angle than the earlier "1"s I've had. They say they've hardened the metal engagement surface and that the plastic body of the catch is toleranced slightly larger to prevent wobble in the frame - honestly I still can't tell any difference. I have reduced the mag catch button which makes accidental tapping of it much less likely and that alone seems to help a lot, but time will tell if the metal engagement surface will stand up to 1000 rounds or more without undesired wear... great gun, I love it! But not such a great mag catch set up. Three things I believe is needed: 1) harder engagement surface, 2) stiffer spring, and 3) reduced thumb pad profile.

 

[armed85]

Since my M&P40 Compact and yours returned from the factory on the same day, perhaps they said "hello" to each other while there?

ha ha

 

[Coronach]

DHart-

I think the newest ones do have a harder surfaces. I bet you can dremel the plastic to achieve a different profile, but I'd check with S&W to make sure that doesn't void anything. As to the spring...yeah, I agree it could be a little stiffer without problems, but I've also not had problems with it dropping inadvertantly, so I dunno.

Mike

 

[pwrtool45]

pwrtool45... odds are your M&P will probably be fine, but don't be so sure that getting to 350 rounds means you're in the clear... it was around 350 to 400 rounds through my M&P 40 Compact before all my mag drop problems even began. For some owners it doesn't happen until an even higher round count. There's no denying that the M&P has a design problem with the mag catch...

Oh, I agree with what you're saying. 350 rounds would barely get a reasonably dedicated competitor through one month of IDPA matches. A reasonably dedicated USPSA shooter will probably go through amount that before I finish typing this . My original post was aimed more at the inevitable "Brand X's Model Y has flaw Z. Better get Brand I's Model J. It is and always has been flawless" posting(s) that accompany every trouble ticket post on the internet. It wasn't a shot at you. Your grievance is well founded and I hope they get the issue worked out. You seem to like the gun, and it's a shame to have a carry pistol that's not quite ready for carry.

The issue is interesting to me, though. This seems to be a larger problem with the compact than the full-size? Yet the compact and the full-size almost certainly have the exact same cantilever release spring. The fixed end of the spring is located about half the length of my index finger from the bottom of the grip, so I doubt they shortened it for the compact. I also doubt the mag release itself is any different, so what's left? Glocks, for instance, have the same release spring and release button across models (at least in the same caliber) don't they? I would imagine this is the case in almost all pistols. Of course, they almost universally use a coil spring. Switching to a different type of spring might be having some unintended consequences here. The firing cycle (especially on the compacts) might be producing enough force perpendicular to the spring (since the recoil impulse isn't perfectly straight back) to be a problem...

I wonder if a right handed shooter were to reverse the mag catch and shoot a couple hundred rounds through the gun would it make a difference. The inward facing force vector would be pressing in the opposite direction to active the mag release in that case.

Just thinking aloud. Probably not worth this much thought.

If it happened to me, I would probably just bend the mag release spring and see if that helped. But then, my M&P is intended for SSP and Production division. Probably wouldn't do that with a dedicated carry piece. I've also got my own issues with S&W's supposedly awesome customer service. If I can avoid dealing with those jerks with a little tweaking, I'll do it.

 

[armed85]

I fired 100 rounds through it with no malfunctions. I need to buy more ammo.

At least I have an excuse to shoot more often ha ha

 

[DHart]

jragsdale... give it 1000 rounds and if no problems with mag drop occur, you will probably be home free for a while. Often the mag drop problem doesn't show up until 400, 500, 600, even 700 rounds.

 

[armed85]

A friend of mine is interested in buying the same gun and together we put 400 rounds through it in one afternoon. That brings the total to 500 after the factory fixes with no malfunctions.

Hopefully I can put this problem to rest soon

If not, I'll probably trade for another 1911.

My Smith J-frame never fails and is my back up.

 

[armed85]

I'm up to the 700 round count now. I'm going to put this problem to rest. Smith made it right by me.

dhart, I hope Smith will replace the frame or do something to fix your M&P. It's a fine gun.

 

[shooter503]

Just spent three days watching dozens of LEOs putting hundreds of rounds through S&W demo guns. Not one dropped mag. or FTF.

I put a bunch of rounds through the full-size M&P 9 and I was impressed. Great trigger, great ergonomics, virtually nil recoil effects. The interchangeable grips work very well. It will be my next purchase.

I'm a Sig fan. The 9 feels like a slimmed down version of the 228.

 

[armed85]

From what I've gathered, the problems with the M&P are isolated to the compact and not the full size. Full size M&Ps are reliable out of the box.

Perhaps Smith spent more time testing the full size than the compact. It's plausible that they assumed the compact would work as well and not require the same extensive testing because it shares the same basic design.

 

[DHart]

Most of the mag drop problems are associated with the Compacts, but I believe there have also been some with the fullsize... check

www.mp-pistol.com

forum to confirm... be sure to look in the Full Size folder as well as in the Tech Difficulties folder... that's the best and most complete source of current user feedback/info on the M&P's that I'm aware of.

 

[dizzydetective]

I am a new member, but have been reading posts for many months. On this topic, I could not resist however. I just bought M&P 40 and M&P 45. Both FULL SIZE, and both used, but look pristine. Just back from the range with the following: Loaded 10 rds in the 40, fired one shot, and the mag dropped. I thought I hadn't seated it properly, so pushed it in, racked the slide (because the next round didn't chamber, turns out they never do) and tried again. Second shot, same result. 7 out of 10 shots dropped the mag. I tried pulling on it, moving it side-to-side, and so on. It would not come out unless the gun was fired, then it dropped immediately. Thought maybe my thumb was pushing on the button during firing, so purposefully kept it away. Actually got the weapon to fire 8 of 10 rounds (still dropped 2). This thing is going back Monday.
As for the 45: No dropped mags, but jammed on Federal 185 HP, maybe 2 out of every 10 shots: Failure to fully chamber. Did the same thing with 185 Silvertip, but not quite as often, maybe once per 10 shots.
Question is, can they do anything with the jamming 45 if I bother sending it back? I like both guns, especially the 40. Shoots great as a single shot.

 

[tydephan]

Wow...sorry to hear about your bad luck.

I'm a member of the club as well. My M&P9c had to go back to the factory for a mag release problem (albeit different from what you are experiencing).

The good thing about this scenario is that Smith and Wesson will definitely stand behind their product. I called up, they emailed me a UPS Next Day Air shipping label. I shipped it off with a letter stating I was dissatisfied, but a set of night sights would reestablish my enthusiasm for the gun. It came back 9 days later fixed with a new set of night sights on it.

Question is, can they do anything with the jamming 45 if I bother sending it back?

Absolutely. Worse case scenario (for them), they can replace it.

When you field strip your .40, is there a revision number on the frame, under where the barrel was? Newer guns (that have all the latest changes - except the new mag release) are stamped with Revision "N."

Call S&W up. They'll make it right.

Btw...welcome to the High Road.