Neck-sized or full length??

[shocktroop]

Ok, pretty new to handloading, and been working on loads for my rem 700 vls in .223 Even my worst load shoots under 1 in at 100. The rifle likes anything under 55gr (1 in 12 twist) My problem is....when I full-length size my brass, they outshoot the fire-formed neck sized ones. Is this common? I thought as a rule, fire-formed cases that were neck-sized only would produce better groups. and my non-crimped loads do better also. Right now, the best thing going is Honady 50gr spx #2240 with 25.5gr of IMR 3031 and Federal Match primers. It was full sized, no crimp and a COAL of 2.210.
Just got back from the range and this load turned out a .261 group. Just a ragged oval hole. I thought there was no way all shots went in the same spot, but all rounds and holes on paper were accounted for. I just thought neck-sizing was better, or am I doing this wrong? The rifle is pretty bone stock and the shooting was done off the bags. Also, is there a pet powder for .223? I heard of people liking IMR, so thats what I got, whats the huge difference in the powders, is there a preffered powder for .223 over IMR? Thanks any help!

 

[Rockstar]

There are a number of good powders for .223. I like AA.2230 and H335, but there are others that perform well.

You shouldn't be crimping any of your reloads for your VLS. Neck-sizing only generally is more accurate than FL sizing, ALL OTHER FACTORS BEING EQUAL. Could be that your technique for neck-sizing is lacking. Are you using the Stoney Point tool, comparator, etc., for determining how far off the lands you're seating your bullets?

 

[P0832177]

There are plenty of choices for loading the 223.

Varget provided in VLS I had once, boring results.
I shot moly coated bullets in it, and Varget was real performer. The one powder that shined well was N133 with 50gr VMax and Fed 205 primer in Win. cases. I use Varget still now for logistical reasons for the most part.

Neck sizing brass with a dedicated die? or did you back off your FL die?

I have used Redding Deluxe die sets, they come with a dedicated FL and Neck sizing dies. The seater is just a regular one. I have always had pretty good results neck sizing for bolt guns. Are you using the expander ball? A good investment might be Type S Neck die that uses bushings.

 

[shocktroop]

I am using lee delux rifle dies with a dedicated neck sizing-collet die. I mic the cases and the collet die is sizing them from what I can tell. I started playing with COAL, at first, went off of COAL of the best factory ammo my rifle shot, and made loads to match the factory. Some of this stuff seems like rocket science to me, I don't have any fancy tools or anything, just a basic set-up and a micrometer. Once again, my rifle is bone stock with a simmons aetec, and shooting .4 (best) and .7 (average) groups. I think I could do better with a nice trigger, better optics and so on, but from the same platform, thought neck sized only would do better. So what do I do for neck sizing?? I'm following the instructions and all, do I try running the die in some more....or out? Also, is there a huge difference...or any difference in brass?? I got tons of all sorts, does it make an appreciable difference if all other factors are the same?

 

[Jake in TX]

Just because a certain load shoots one ragged hole with full length sized brass does not mean that it will shoot as well with neck sized brass. The neck sized brass will have a different internal volume, and you will have to find an appropriate load for it. However, you will find the brass lasting for more loadings, and need fewer trimmings.

Jake in TX

 

[P0832177]

Perhaps you have a defective collet die? I would really suggest you get a dedicated neck sizer die, ie not collet.
I think that might help your issues. I would suggest you follow the specific COAL of the bullet mfg'r. Do not mess with the COAL till you have the right tools, ie Stony Point gear or RCBS precision mic.

Most factory chambers are pretty generous. Work on consistentcy first, then do the voodoo!

Some of my best loads are at mag length for the 223 @ 2.26"

 

[Doug b]

Shocktroop,if your press is of the compound leverage type the collet type die doesn't work worth a darn.The amount of bullet pull (case mouth tension) is set by feel.My experiance with this has been to much tension and ruined brass to not enough resize and the bullet falls out.Ditto the dedicated neck size die suggestion.

 

[Jim Watson]

I have a couple of those collet things, the .223 is fair, the .30-06 is very inconsistent in bullet pull.
Just full length size your brass, load, don't crimp, and shoot.
It is commonly said that brass lasts longer when neck sized but since most rifle brass fails by neck cracking, how can it matter? Unless you are shooting in a benchrest chamber which allows little expansion and using a bushing resizing die which sizes just enough with no need for an expander plug, that is.

 

[bogie]

Ok, pretty new to handloading, and been working on loads for my rem 700 vls in .223 Even my worst load shoots under 1 in at 100.

Heh, after you've been handloading for a while, you'll look at the gun rag writers with some new insight...

 

[shocktroop]

I don't think I'm understanding the differences in the dies you guys are talking about. When I neck-size only, the bullet seats pretty firm, I can't pull it out or push it in without a pair of pliers, so it's in there pretty good. I thought that the whole good thing about fire-formed cases was that they were expanded to match your chamber, and more consistance?

 

[Khornet]

Shock,

you're right, that's the idea. I think the point made above about finding the right load for neck-sized is valid.

Be careful trying to increase neck tension with that collet die. I broke mine that way. Before that it really did improve accuracy in my .30-'06.