conrad427
Member
I have a DPMS, I like it quite a bit.
Need advice on which AR to get (between two)
- Thread starter 12Pump
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shootstraight57
Member
Everyone here on this post has valid points, but when you get a DPMS and have the gas keyscrews back out because they were not properly staked or the gas block loosen only after less than 100 rds that will make you gun shy on DPMS!
like KYHUNTER said "Spotty QC".
like KYHUNTER said "Spotty QC".
WardenWolf
member
Honestly, staking is an overrated problem. If you really cared, you could fix it yourself with some Loctite.
Winkman822
Member
Between the two, I would take the S&W
WardenWolf
member
They're back in stock! http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.a...rearms+.223/5.56+M4+FGS-12+Rifle&groupid=5387 Edit: Gone again, lol!
S&W > DPMS in terms of quality. But whether or not the S&W will be a good fit for you depends on a lot of things, and both guns are limited due to lack of a free-float handguard and a 1:9" twist rate. I do believe the FGS-12 is a better choice than either, at a cheaper price, but I can only give my advice. You have to choose the rifle that you think will fit you best.
S&W > DPMS in terms of quality. But whether or not the S&W will be a good fit for you depends on a lot of things, and both guns are limited due to lack of a free-float handguard and a 1:9" twist rate. I do believe the FGS-12 is a better choice than either, at a cheaper price, but I can only give my advice. You have to choose the rifle that you think will fit you best.
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shootstraight57
Member
Like you said WARDENWOLF I resolved the problem with locktite and restaking the gas key. Dimpled the barrel and reset the gas block.
I was only giving my experience with DPMS. I haven't had these problems with a Smith and Wesson MP15.
I feel that the quality of the Oracle does not compare with the MP.
If I had the option I would go with the Smith.
I was only giving my experience with DPMS. I haven't had these problems with a Smith and Wesson MP15.
I feel that the quality of the Oracle does not compare with the MP.
If I had the option I would go with the Smith.
Llama Bob
member
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The S&W is the nicer rifle, but personally I will not do business with them. They sold us up the river, and I haven't forgotten and never will. I'll buy their old revolvers, but nothing new.
So I'd be looking for a 3rd option. There's a million AR vendors.
So I'd be looking for a 3rd option. There's a million AR vendors.
If it absolutely has to be one of the two listed then get the M&P.
If other possibilities are an option put together a PSA. By waiting for sales and Black Friday I put together one for as a present for my nephew that was almost completely PSA for $432.
I've put together two others for a bit more, but they're way better quality than either the M&P or the DPMS.
Even if you're just buying a complete upper and lower and popping two pins you're saving quite a bit of money and it's better quality.
If other possibilities are an option put together a PSA. By waiting for sales and Black Friday I put together one for as a present for my nephew that was almost completely PSA for $432.
I've put together two others for a bit more, but they're way better quality than either the M&P or the DPMS.
Even if you're just buying a complete upper and lower and popping two pins you're saving quite a bit of money and it's better quality.
BSA1
member
For a budget entry level AR take a look at the original S&W Sport. We have had long debates on THR and the general consensus is the Forward Assist is not needed and may cause more problems.
The reason that the Forward Assist is not generally needed for civilians is trying to force a out-of-spec round into the chamber will cause the mother of all jams. If the round will not chamber eject it from the gun and keep on shooting.
My U.S. Army son says he has used the Forward Assist during qualifications but that is because the rifles and M-4's they were using were well worn in poor condition (he had another word for it which I will not repeat). Support troops get well worn guns to qualify with.
The reason that the Forward Assist is not generally needed for civilians is trying to force a out-of-spec round into the chamber will cause the mother of all jams. If the round will not chamber eject it from the gun and keep on shooting.
My U.S. Army son says he has used the Forward Assist during qualifications but that is because the rifles and M-4's they were using were well worn in poor condition (he had another word for it which I will not repeat). Support troops get well worn guns to qualify with.
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WardenWolf
member
I'd say try to find something with a 1:7" barrel or at least 1:8". That will be your single greatest problem later on if you start wanting more performance out of it.
Well, I went to the gun shop today to get the Smith & Wesson, but they didn't even have it, even though it is still listed on their website. The did have a Bear Creek AR15, which I've been told here is good. That one cost $700 used and looked a little beat up around the edges. It had a carry-handle type rear site, a quad rail fore end (very uncomfortable to hold onto) and a fold-down type of handle below the fore end. The dealer told me it was good because it had a Wylde barrel, which I see is a good thing. Not sure what to do now.
Jackal
Member
http://palmettostatearmory.com/
Order a complete upper and lower, have your dealer transfer the lower. Wham bam and done.
hanno
Member
Here is the S&W M&P15 Sport II for $500 plus shipping. Best price I've seen.
https://shop.whittakerguns.com/product/368
https://shop.whittakerguns.com/product/368
WardenWolf
member
Should have said a "Wylde chamber". It's a style of chamber, not a brand of barrel. It's a compromise chamber that allows it to shoot both .223 and 5.56 equally well. Most good AR's will have a Wylde chamber, and the only good reason to not have one is if you're going for match-grade accuracy by focusing on one or the other.
12Pump, what are you really wanting in an AR? Is the fixed front sight important to you, or would you rather have the versatility of a true flat-top?
Well, I wish I could tell you, but the moderator keeps deleting when I say what my purpose is. So I guess I can't tell you what I'm looking for or why. I'm afraid I'll have to leave it at that. (Don't worry, it's nothing illegal
)I'm going to guess that it's basically for possible civil unrest, riots and civil war, but that instead of a Minuteman Rifle or something similar you used a popular culture catch-all four letter acronym to describe that rifles purpose instead. Right?Well, I wish I could tell you, but the moderator keeps deleting when I say what my purpose is. So I guess I can't tell you what I'm looking for or why. I'm afraid I'll have to leave it at that. (Don't worry, it's nothing illegal
I believe that particular acronym is banned in this forum. Hence the trouble posting.
If so I'd still get the PSA that I and a few other people recommend earlier.
Actually, it would be more as an investment. You know, buy low now and sell high later. I wanted to get one just for that rather than shooting. I already have one for that, but am not sure if I'd want to sell the one I currently have if there's another "panic".
That's tougher to try to foresee as you're trying to trying to see what's going to attract and appeal to some future buyer.
I know some brands will worth more money, but sometimes buying two of that item to sell later on would be more to your advantage. For instance here's a pic that I took either Dec 2012 or Jan 2013 during the last panic at a local Gunstore in Dallas.
Imagine that you had two Bushies instead of one Colt, wouldn't matter in this case. Two Colts on the other hand.
Jackal
Member
Well, strictly as an investment gun, you cannot beat the Colt 6920. They simply do not go down in value.
WardenWolf
member
All right, then. True flat-tops (no fixed front sight) are more versatile. If the night soil hits the oscillating unit, they can be turned into anything easily without the need for risers or rings of any particular height. Just bolt on a scope, red dot, or whatever, no need to worry about clearing a front sight. That's what I'd recommend, then. Something that's a true flat-top. That would rule out the S&W.Well, I wish I could tell you, but the moderator keeps deleting when I say what my purpose is. So I guess I can't tell you what I'm looking for or why. I'm afraid I'll have to leave it at that. (Don't worry, it's nothing illegal
While the DPMS rifles do occasionally exhibit some problems out of the box, all the problems are pretty simple to fix and, should you so desire, the parts they involve are fairly cheap to replace entirely. The DPMS would fill the role better without significant modification.
You would, however, be better-served with a rifle that has a free-floated railed handguard. and low-profile gas block under the guard, but a true flat-top is still your best bet.
WardenWolf
member
A Colt in the hand is worth 2 of the Bush? ;-)
Sebastian the Ibis
Member
If you want to go the PSA route here is what I would do today:
Option 1:
Purchase a $50 stripped (Anderson) lower locally.
And whichever one of these kits tickles your fancy:
http://palmettostatearmory.com/ar-15-05/rifle-kits.html
Value for money, I’d do the $409, Freedom Kit.
For $500 all in (shipping, Tax, etc.) plus an hour in your garage, you will have a nice rifle.
Option 2:
$159 PSA complete blemished lower:
http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-ar-15-complete-blem-lower-classic-edition-no-magazine.html
Plus a $379 complete premium upper:
http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-m4-premium-16-cmv-cl-upper-with-bcg-and-charging-handle.html
Option 2 is an extra $100 or so above Option 1, once you factor in shipping and FFL charges on the lower. However, it will save you an hour putting the lower together.
Option 1:
Purchase a $50 stripped (Anderson) lower locally.
And whichever one of these kits tickles your fancy:
http://palmettostatearmory.com/ar-15-05/rifle-kits.html
Value for money, I’d do the $409, Freedom Kit.
For $500 all in (shipping, Tax, etc.) plus an hour in your garage, you will have a nice rifle.
Option 2:
$159 PSA complete blemished lower:
http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-ar-15-complete-blem-lower-classic-edition-no-magazine.html
Plus a $379 complete premium upper:
http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-m4-premium-16-cmv-cl-upper-with-bcg-and-charging-handle.html
Option 2 is an extra $100 or so above Option 1, once you factor in shipping and FFL charges on the lower. However, it will save you an hour putting the lower together.
Ibmikey
Member
I guess all the rhetoric about use has me confused however if you want a investment buy a known brand name that will easily sell in the future (I do not sell my weapons). Smith & Wesson, Colt, BCM, etc will bring top dollar in a panic or in natural times, unknown names on receivers may not fare as well. If you purchase a quality and well known rifle you may decide that it is a reliable and fun shooter and do what so many of us are doing: shooting the beans out of them.
AKElroy
Member
I did option 2, but I got the upper on a Black Friday deal for $299. Added a mil-spec BCG and extended charge handle for $120, and I was off to the races for $570 or so. To answer why PSA over the smith, I have to say CL FN Barrel that you don't get on the Smith or Oracle. By the way, that "blem" lower did not have a scratch on it.
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