Need help on 10mm choice

[Nobody]

I'm down to these two models, a Glock 20 or a S&W 1006.

I love the way the 1006 fits my hand, but I can probably tolerate the fat Glock handle. The tough part of my decision comes not from the number of rounds each gun will carry but primarily with aftermarket support. This would be a true general purpose pistol for me, hunting, protection, camping, maybe CCW (the 1006 is flat enough). I think either gun will handle full load 10mm. The problem is that aftermarkt barrels and aftermarket barrels with conversion calibers are in abundance with the Glock but almost non-existant for the 1006. Same for aftermarket sights, etc., etc., etc. All in all I'd say I prefer the feel of the 1006, but from a practicality standpoint, it seems like it will be MUCH harder to obtain aftermarket support for it. I can find a 100 6" hunting barrel for the Glock, conversely, I may be able to get Barsto to make one for a 1006 for well over 200. I don't even know about caliber conversion barrels for the 1006. Damn this is difficult. The 1006 definitely fits my hand a lot better than the Glock though.

Also, as far as used 1006 pistols go, is 3000 rounds considered a lot to have been run through a well cared for pistol? Thanks for all your advice folks.

 

[Sean Smith]

3000 rounds is a joke for a 1006. That just means it is broken in for you.

I wouldn't let caliber conversions be a deciding factor, personally. I think they are generally a waste of time.

There are alot of large-frame S&W autoloaders out there. I know Novaks does custom work on them, for instance. Heck, the S&W Performance Center will probably customize the 1006 for you.

 

[Lennyjoe]

I chose the 1006 as my field gun.

Its a little heavy to be toting around on a hip holster but nothing thats gonna bother me too much.

9 rounds of 10MM is enough for me out in the field so rounds count isnt an issue. Besides, I carry a spare mag anyway

e-gunparts, Brownells and even Midwayusa has parts available for the 1006 pistol.

If your gonna throw the pistol in a backpack then you might want to concider the 1006 over the Glock for safety reasons.

As for conversions, who needs them. Just buy more pistols

 

[Majic]

The M1006 is one tough 10mm, but you sound like you want to build a combo set. A better alternative is to learn handloading and make the 10mm perform all the duties of the lesser chamberings. It will be cheaper in the long run.
As to barrel length, the extra inch gained by going to a longer barrel will for all practical purposes do really nothing. You will gain minimum velocity increase and the sight radius will remain the same. That's the real purpose of long barrel hunting handguns, increased sight radius. The shorter barrels generate enough velocity to accomplish the hunting tasks you require of each chambering.

 

[Nobody]

Yeah, I'd pretty much come to the same conclusion myself that I'd just be better off reloading the 10 to whatever I wanted it to do. I just really wanted to cover the base of cheap .40 practice fodder when I'm feeling too lazy to reload. Not a real important part of this decision.

The bigger part of the decision is that my state has a minimum hunting pistol barrel length of 5.5" That puts the 1006 a 1/2" shy of where she'd need to be for legal hunting. I don't know how intently they check that sort of thing in the woods but I wanted to play it safe. I've no doubt that the extra 1/2" would have zero effect on the pistol's ability to drop a deer or a hog. It's just a legal hoop jumping exercise.

 

[Ivy Mike]

you mentioned the Glock 20 for CCW. Thats a fairly large gun to try and conceal. For the rest of the uses you mentioned, I think the Glock would be ideal. The gun has 3 safeties that are always active accept when you are squeezing the trigger. Since you will always have the gun in a holster when carrying (in a backpack, on your hip, etc) You can get a six inch barrel (from Bar-Sto for one) so hunting regs. would be satisfied.

Glock perfection.

 

[PO2Hammer]

In all my research into the 10mm I've never heard a bad word about the 1006. I went with the Glock 20. I am VERY happy with it. The wide frame really tames the felt recoil. It's more accurate than any other Glock I've ever owned, and I've owned most of them. I bought the KKM .40 conversion barrel and it is superb. Very accurate and no signs of case bulging like my G-24. My 20 is my go to gun, and the conversion barrel gets me more trigger time with my 'one gun'. I don't reload, yet, so it saves me money as well.
I think either one would be a fine choice.
P.S. FWIW, I've never had a failure of any kind with my G-20, that includes shooting .40 as well.

 

[Marcus]

I dunno about longer barrels for the 1006 but there`s plenty of other aftermarket support for it since the 4506 (and other large frame Smiths) shares a great deal of the same parts. My 1006 is plenty accurate for hunting and is one pistol I don`t ever plan to sell. Marcus

 

[MCNETT]

they are both great guns. Do now what you will do later anyway: get them both!
-Mike

 

[Nobody]

OK, so I go to a large gun shop this weekend with a really good selection of new and used pistols. They had 10mm behind the counter but not a 1006 like I was looking for. They then start asking if I really want a 10mm because the recoil is too much for 95% of shooters and 10mm pistols were built around what was meant to be a submachine gun round and not a pistol round... yada yada yada. I tried to disagree with these guys but they were insistent that a 10mm was a raging beast that almost no one could handle. I said I used to have a .44 super redhawk, how bad could a 10mm be? I'd gotten rid of the SRH because the pistol was too darned big and heavy. They said I'd be better off using a .44 over a 10mm. OK, now I think they were blowing smoke but they were utterly convinced that they were right. Tell me they were wrong!

 

[Marshall]

All I'll add is this:

I went to a centain gunshop about two weeks ago. This one has a range, large assortment of about 4 brands of pistols, etc. The man proceeds to tell me "if they don't sell it, it aint no good". Though I found his loyalty admirable, I found his ignorance and arrogance less than desirable. So, I didn't order the two handguns I went there to order from him. The sad thing is, he lost $1,300.00 to $1,500.00 worth of business that day and and an untold amount of future business while not even realizing it.

 

[rbernie]

I tried to disagree with these guys but they were insistent that a 10mm was a raging beast that almost no one could handle.

I rented a Glock 20 (10mm, full-size frame) this past weekend and put 100 rounds thru it. I also shot, side-by-side with the G20, my CZ97 and CZ75. Aside from the extra muzzle flash (and the fact that I can't stand the Glock grip angle in general), I would be hard pressed to tell you the difference in recoil between the CZ97 and the G20. I'm presuming that the G20's frame (wide backstrap, polymer construction) had something to do with this, but still - it was NOT a raging beast. In fact, it was a real pussycat compared to my full-house 44RemMag load in my 5 1/2" Redhawk.

 

[Bruce H]

Nobody run very fast from that gun shop. Sounds like they didn't have what you wanted and tried to fool you. We have a Witness and a 610 S&W. Both are easy to shoot and control. Still thinking about adding a 1076.

 

[bradvanhorn]

44mag recoil from the 10mm?! You might want to drug test those guys next time.

My past experience with 10mm was very consistent from gun to gun. My opinion is that:

1) the 10mm has slightly less muzzle flip than the 45ACP

2) the 10mm pushes back into the hand a little harder than the 45ACP

3) the muzzle flash can be more pronounced depending on the load

As a result, I think the 10mm is a little easier to control from shot to shot due to less muzzle flip, but is a little slower from shot to shot due to the bigger push in the hands. I don't know if that makes sense, but it's how I felt about it.

10mm recoil = 44mag recoil? Not in my opinion... I'd equate it this way: 10mm recoil is to 44mag recoil what 9mm recoil is to 357mag recoil. Did that make any sense?

 

[Nobody]

Yeah, that makes sense. These guys were saying a 10 recoils WAY more than a .45 and people generally can't tolerate it. I thought I was smelling BS but wanted to hear it from some others. They were SO certain of themselves.

 

[Parker Dean]

It's been my experience that that "wrist wrenching/wrecking recoil" nonsense comes from people who haven't even SEEN a 10mm, let alone fired one.

edit: Grab the 1006 while you can since they ain't making any more. AFAIK the Glocks are still current production.

 

[bradvanhorn]

I'm always dismayed by the number of uneducated (or downright ignorant) gun store employees I encounter. "What?! You want a 10mm?! Why that gun will take your shooting hand clean off the first time you shoot it! No way buddy, you should buy that new 18 oz. 44mag over there, that'll be much easier on you!"

 

[Ivy Mike]

They are talking about recoil like its a bad thing

10mm isn't that bad. In fact, I think(thats my opinion mind you) the felt recoil is less with the G20 than it is with the G22. That large frame and slide really keep things in check. If the guy behind the counter can't handle it, thats not really your problem is it. Tell him to smile politely and sell you the gun you want. Wave a little cash in his face and I'll bet his tune changes.

 

[W Turner]

The best way I have heard the recoil of a 10mm versus a .45 described was by a friend of mine.....

" Take an (unloaded) 1911 and have someone put their palm flush against the muzzle and push back, simulating recoil. Then have the same person hold their hand about 3-4" away from the muzzle and smack the muzzle with their palm."

This is an accurate description the amount of recoil is about the same, but the .45 is a slower shove where the 10mm is a quicker smack. Either can be easily controlled with good technique.

Mino

 

[Jerry the Geek]

Note to "Nobody", from a guy who has over 20,000 rounds through a 10mm.

Get an STI Edge. A 'Trojan' will suffice, in a pinch, but if you really want to rock with a 10mm, the extended dust-cover of the Edge makes a significant difference when you're looking for the fast, accurate double-tap.

It ain't cheapl. I paid $1650 for my Edge in in Y2K, but it was worth every penny.

Here's the deal:

I bought an Edge when they were certified for Limited competition in IPSC, which is why I wanted a 10mm. The .40 S&W (Slow and Wimpy) offered an 18-round magazine capacity, but they were ... well ... wimpy. Nobody, at that time, was making a .40 S&W gun which was designed for the presures generate by a .45 acp-like round. All of the guns were based on the 9mm, rather than the .45acp.

I tried the 10mm Glock, and it was a great gun except the ergonomics sucked. It hurt my hand to shoot it. Specifically, it made the web of my thumb very sore after a couple of shots.

The STI Edge didn't have that effect.

There's a lot to be said for the 10mm cartridge, mostly that you can handload your ammunition for any perceived recoil from the 9mm to the .41 magnum. (I have a .41 magnum, have shot it in the Ruger Blackhawk Revolver, and it is far superior to the .44 Magnum, which is a bitch!)

I bought the STI Edge in 10mm for IPSC competition, and found that the full-power loads were similar to the .45 ACP in perceived recoil. I loaded them down the .40 S&W power for IPSC competition, and it worked like a charm ... every time.

So. Why would I buy a 10mm if I wanted to shoot the gun at .40 S&W power levels?

Because I can.

The 10mm case is reinforced at the base-web far beyond what the .40 S&W could reliably handle. Essentially, the 10mm is a .45 made small, with much more case strength and the gun is invariably built on a .45acp frame and chamber design (fully supported). The .40 S&W is a 9mm built large, with the 9mm frame and the chamber is all-too-often not fully supported, leading to the occasional Ka-BOOM! when your handloads exceed the (lower) pressure limits.

The STI in 10mm is built like a Rock. The cartridge is reinforced, you can essentially load it as hot as you like (as long as you don't load it in a powder which is faster than, say, Vihta Vourhti N320); the chamber is fully supported, unlike the Glock version, so if you double-charge your loads you can .. hey, wait a minute! If you double-charge the 10mm, you overflow the case. Good indication that your loading technique has failed, eh?

Here's a point to be considered: when you load the 10mm hot, you will experience a much greater muzzle-flip than if you load it mild (eg: similar to the .40 S&W.) This can be an acceptable limit, if you compare the 10mm to the venerabel .45acp (ahhhhhh!) as opposed to the wimpy 9x19 (yech!)

That's it. That's the comparison which you should keep in mind when considering the 10mm. Do you want a mouse-gun, or do you want a man-stopper? If the latter, you don't want to put a man-stopper cartridge in a gun which is designed as a mouse-gun.

I run 200gr bullets (Montana Gold FMJ) in my 10mm. That's the bullet that works best in my STI Edge. Most folks who shoot the .40 S&W in IPSC competition are looking at the 180-grain bullet. <Ptui!> Mouse gun in drag.

You don't need to settle for second-best. Go for the STI in10mm, get a gun which is built for the caliber.

This is not your daddy's Buick.

Jerry the (Hoo-wah!) Geek

 

[PO2Hammer]

I'll echo Clean97GTI, I bought a Glock 20 and a Glock 35 on the same day. Shot them side by side several times. No difference that I could tell, mabey slightly more FELT recoil with the 35-.40s&w. The 35 is long gone, the 20 has become my favorite autoloader ever. I was doing weak hand only practice today, no problem. I'm 6' 170lbs, skinny, don't have big hands or Popeye forearms, no problem. I also don't tolerate recoil all that well. .44 mag D/A revolvers-no way! S/A mabey. I have a 6" python .357 (heavy) and after a box of full power stuff I switch to .38's. With the G-20 I always want to shoot more than I can afford. I shoot mostly CCI Blazer 200 tmj's, some Win silvertips and some Corbon, no problem.
Everyone over on Glock Talk who fires a G-20 for the first time remarks on less recoil than they were expecting.

 

[gunfan]

Wrist-wrenching recoil!

What have THEY been smoking?!?! The 10mm is the ultimate autoloading cartridge, balancing the penetration/shocking/tissue-destruction proclivities, perfectly! Would you expect any less from a cartridge of which Ted Nugent, Bart Skelton and Jeff Cooper wholeheartedly approve?

What do you think?

Scott

 

[caz223]

Any shooter that disses the 10mm round is no shooter at all.
Everybody I know that has shot one loves it, and wants more.
My two favorite rounds of all time are .41 magnum in revolvers, and 10mm in autos. (Even though 10mm works fine in my 610).

 

[Nobody]

Well, I've been to a few more gunstores and handled some more S&W 10xx series guns as well as some more G20's 2nd and 3rd generation. Although I liked the thinner grip of the S&W, I found the G20 grip put my hand in far better two handed shooting position. I found a range that let me shoot a G20 and was amazed at easy it was to put the rounds into a three inch circle. Recoil? Yeah, about like a .45 or a hot 9mm. It really wasn't bad at all to me. So, I went with the G20. That's good all in all because now I've got lots optional aftermarket support should I choose to utilize it. I can even slap on a 6" barrel and go hunting with it. My state requires a minimum of a 5.5" barrel. Thanks for everyone's opinions, they were helpful. In the end, lots of handling a little range time made the final decision for me, which is how it should be.

 

[agtman]

You really couldn't have made a bad choice with either the S&W 1006 or the G20. But since you specified hunting as one purpose, the G20's capacity for use of a 6" hunting barrel gives you the additional versatility to do that.

Enjoy!