Need help understanding 12ga shotgun hulls

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rfwobbly

rfwobbly

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I see a lot of posts and even the reloading books saying to either use Winchester AA or Remington STS hulls and almost nothing else. Well, I went digging in the trash cans at 3 skeet ranges and 1 sporting clays range and came up with exactly 1 Remington STS hull after about 80 minutes! :mad:

But I did come up with some nice looking Diana and Rio hulls with stout plastic and brass bases. There must have been 1000 identical hulls in that 1 trash can. It was too good to pass up. That was before I looked at the load details in the manual and noticed that the powder charges can vary widely by hull. From this I assume that hulls, unlike cartridge brass, are a critical component.

So my questions are...
1) Can these hulls be reloaded even once? I just need these long enough to get me started until my load of regulation components comes in at my shooting Club.

2) What physical trait of the hull determines if a Rio hull is more like a Remington than a Winchester? Is there a thicker base (i.e. lower internal volume)? I have a band saw and can cut some open if need be.


Load is 12ga, 7/8oz of #8 using Clays for target practice (say 1100fps). Press is a MEC 9000. Many thanks.
 
The internal dimensions of the hull, specifically the shape of the basewad and the taper of the hull, determine how it'll react to a given powder and wad. Sectioning hulls can be done to try to match things up, but it's generally not done because it's not often needed.

You can reload the cheap Remington hulls several times before the plastic mouth starts showing cracks at the fold lines and the loads get erratic as a result. Most folk that can't/won't load AA/STS hulls just reload the bulk pack Remington hulls.

I have not had good luck with the bulk pack Winchester or Federal hulls - the Federal hulls crack at the folds after one reloading, and the Winchester hulls are too inconsistent in OAL to hold a good crimp once they've been used once. The Federal hulls also have straight internal walls and do not do well with reduced loads due to the large internal volume.
 
Im about to fall over.
Click to expand...

You want to fall over (laughing), check me out at 61 years old digging thought 3 dozen trash cans at the Club, like some kind of vagrant. It's been 90F here in the afternoons. Sweat was pouring off my brow. I haven't shaved in 2 days. I probably looked the part.

:D
 
I'm with on digging for hulls or brass. Sometimes it's very rewarding, other times not so much.
Hulls, I load just about anything that isn't heat crimped. The only ting to kind of keep an eye on is 8 point and 6 point crimps. I'm kind of particular and prefer to use 8 point crimp hulls such as the AA's, STS, and Gold Medal. But I've loaded a lot of the bargan Remington and Federal hulls. They will work just fine so long as you get a wad and powder charge that will get close to fitting the hull with your shot charge, your good to go.
 
For years now My dad and I have been loading a light trap load for 12ga x 1oz load with 17gr of Red Dot into pretty much any low inner base hull that comes along. All the cheap hulls left from Federal, WW and Remington that everyone gets from Walmart can be loaded with the same WW AA12SL wad (or equivalent). They all will crimp fairly well without any adjustments. It's not unusual to get 5-6 loads out of the hulls.

The Remington STS hulls tend to give the best life with 12ga. WW AA on the 28ga. Don't know on other gauges.
 
Federal Gold Medal hulls are pretty good hulls to reload, as they have great internal volume and are compression formed.
I have never reloaded any win hulls.
I really like the ACTIV hulls, but they are gone forever.
The STS are superb because the hull material is just about ideal for reuse many times over. But I despise the gold or green color while hunting, I can't ever seem to recover more than 90% when using an auto. Same goes with the fed 10ga brown hulls - more like 50% recovery rate.
Gosh, I'd like some florescent orange hulls for hunting......any mfg reading??
Most any hull can be reloaded, but set up time for proper crimp and cycle reliability are the deciding factors for me.
I seem to have seen a web page listing Federal G.M. hulls very reasonable in the last week.
I have found the wad generally decides the load, not powder, hull or shot.
I did say "generally" about the wad.
Depending on what you will use the round for, and a 3/4 oz load works excellent from a 12ga, most loadings will work - and just sticking to a single recipe will eliminate a HUGE variable in your shooting.
Good luck
 
go buy you 5 100packs of the remington cheapies at walmart and you will have 500 great hulls to reload. Its all I use and all I ever will use unless I am given something else. They are cheap and somewhat durable. I am using promo in my hulls and getting about 7 reloads out of them.
 
Euro-trash hulls CAN be reloaded......BUT you need the proper hull/wad combination, typically a Gualandi or similar wad for straight-walled hulls. Since most Europeans do not reload, their hulls are typically made for a use once and throw away mentality.

You'll also benefit from using Euro metric primers (slightly larger than US).

In short, unless you have the components, it really isn't worth it; you're better off grabbing those Remington Gun Clubs - they reload as great as the STS.

If you can't find them, Dick's has them on sale about every three weeks or so - buy a flat or two, mail in the rebate, shoot them and then you'll have nice once-fired hulls that are easily reloadable
 
In the past, I reloaded about any hull I could get my hands on in a reasonable quantity that had a recipe. They all worked for several reloadings. Kept the costs reasonable.

But, I will admit that it was 15-20 years ago and some of the current low cost hulls were not available.

I tend to stick with the "good stuff" of late but if I had a supply of a particular hull I would reload it.
 
go buy you 5 100packs of the remington cheapies at walmart and you will have 500 great hulls to reload. Its all I use and all I ever will use unless I am given something else. They are cheap and somewhat durable. I am using promo in my hulls and getting about 7 reloads out of them.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty new to reloading the 12ga, but I have reloaded rifle and pistol calibers for more than 20 years. On the advise of a friend I bought 500 of the Remington cheapies and have reloaded them for clays and steel duck loads (light #5 1oz wood duck loads). They work great and I get 3-7 reloads out of them.

We had a BBQ and shot clays all day so I would have hulls to load! :what::eek::neener::D

(BTW, the Remington GunClub shells are the exact same powder/shot/wad/primer as the STS and 27 hulls. You are paying a premium for the difference in the hulls. That is directly from Remington's website.)


t2e
 
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those nitro 27s are by far the best hull to reload.... man they make some pretty loads.... but again the Rem Gun Clubs are by far the best hull for your buck.... they last just as long as the Nitro 27s they are just green instead of GOLD!!!!
 
The main difference between the STS/Nitros and the Gun Clubs is the brass versus steel base. Brass is easier to resize and easier on the press.

I have disposed of all of my Winchester AA hulls in 12, 20 and 28 - the sizes were too variable, leading to lousy crimps that let shot leak out - with the Remington hulls, they crimp perfect every time
 
OK, thanks for the input. So I ditched the cheap Euro-trash 6-fold hulls and have gathered up enough AA hulls to keep me happy in the interim. I'll still continue dumpster diving for Remington hulls.


New Question: Is there a power difference in different American brands of 209 shotgun primers, or do they tend to be pretty much interchangeable like Remington, Winchester, and Federal primers are in pistol and rifle? I'm getting input that Federal primers are hotter than the other 2 and should only be used in loads listed for Federal.

Thanks for all your help in knowing where the boundaries are.
 
New Question: Is there a power difference in different American brands of 209 shotgun primers, or do they tend to be pretty much interchangeable like Remington, Winchester, and Federal primers are in pistol and rifle? I'm getting input that Federal primers are hotter than the other 2 and should only be used in loads listed for Federal.

Thanks for all your help in knowing where the boundaries are.
Click to expand...

The substitution of a shotshell primer can result in an otherwise safe load becoming a load that will wreck your shotgun. Use only loads that duplicate the exact components listed. ANY change in any component can make the load dangerous.

What you heard about the Federal 209A is correct. It IS the hottest of all the brands and designations. If it's called for, it's to give a charge of powder a boost so as to keep the charge lighter, or to ignite a large charge of slow burning powder.
 
Primers are not all equal. Win 209 and Fiocchi 616s are reasonable analogous but CCI, Federal, and Remington each have their own characteristics and you should not interchange them without altering the loads appropriately. If you look at the power manufacturer's load data (or in Lyman's excellent shotshell reloading manual) you will see that the loads are primer-specific.
 
Win 209 and NobelSport 209 and Fiocchi 616 are readily interchangeable. Remington 209, Cheddite are also close. Where you might find issues is using Fiocchi and then trying to go back to Win as the Fiocchis are just a smidgen, a very small smidgen, larger and some folks have had issues with Win not staying in there tight

Alliant and Hodgdon both have great online recipes
 
Thanks again, guys.

I've gotten my first 200 loaded now and feel far more confident. This sure ain't metallic reloading!
 
You're right - I find it a LOT less hassle reloading shotgun shells than metallic (and more fun shooting them at the sporting clays course than some "range" where everything can seem more chaotic
 
RF
If you want to be at peace reloading shotshells... pick one hull and stick to just that one...trade/bargin off to someone who may like the "other" brand hulls. Change your loads by changing wads, powder and shot size/type. Makes life much easier!!

Jimmy K
 
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