Need help with M1 Garand 30-06 load

[ArchAngelCD]

well the bend is very, very slight but noticable. Thanks for all the info...

What is the TILT test?

In that case your rod may not be damaged.

The Garand while very reliable does need grease where it needs grease for it to cycle properly. I use white lithium grease to lube my Garand. Use a small brush and lightly "paint" some grease along the channel where the bolt rides and in the channels where the action rides up and down. (probably not the correct name for the parts) It's fairly straight forward, where there's a channel lightly paint it with lithium. See if that makes your problem go away, I have a feeling it will as long as there's no damage anywhere else...

 

[USSR]

...Do not quote powder charges from TM manuals. I believe you got your data from one of the dash numbers of this TM: TM 43-000 l-27 ,TECHNICAL MANUAL, ARMY AMMUNITION DATA SHEETS, SMALL CALIBER AMMUNITION

These manuals are not reloading manuals. This manual may have powders and weights listed but the powders are not the blended powders that we use. Weight levels varied by powder lot. Army powder was accepted with pressure and velocity data, and a data sheet accompained the powder lot to the ammunition plant.

It's not even a question of the powders being blended or cannister grade - That load data is flat out WRONG! I have the actual load data used for various years of M72 Match ammo (Yes, the charge weights varied from one year to the next due to different lots of powder), and they NEVER loaded them with 50.0gr of IMR4895! So, with this glaring error, it brings into question the accuracy of any of the load data contained in that data sheet.

Don

 

[Slamfire]

Operating rods are long and not very stiff. I am certain they "flex" in normal operation. Slow powders and high port pressures will flex them more, and when they stop, at the end of their travel, the cumulative impact will put a permanent set in the operating rod..

When the operating rod starts touching the upper ferrule, upper handguard, it is bent and has to be rebent so that it is not wacking things during its travel.

That is when you break out your Kunhausen, study the pictures, put the operating rod in the wooden blocks in the vise, and study the pictures. Think about where to bend, where to place the operating rod in the wooden blocks, study the pictures again, put a little force in the right direction on the operating rod, take it out, put it in the gun, see if that fixed it, if not, study the pictures again, put the operating rod in the wooden blocks on your vise, study the pictures again, move the operating rod in the wooden blocks, put a little force on the operating rod…………….

 

[wolfe]

well I am still experimenting. Looks like a portion of my problem with the M1 short stroking was my brass wasn't sized properly. When I bought it, it was suppose to have been sized and decapped must not have been sized.

Got another batch 46.9 grains of H4895 to try tomorrow.

 

[P-32]

A very dry op rod spring can cause short stroking on the M1. Lightly grease the outside coils of the spring and call it good. Everybody has their own ideas of what grease to use. I’m going to say the M1 is not particular to any brand as long as the parts are lubed. I use Seal Glide found at your local Napa store.
I do have to ask, is your gas plug tight? A good tool for the gas plug is a ¼ inch ratchet with a short extension on it. (I'm not talking about the early slotted plug.)
I have found my M1’s like IMR 4064 across the board. I also have shot the 147 FMJ with IMR 3031 with stellar results.

 

[dmazur]

Resizing for gas guns is critical. There are lots of posts on this forum about Garands and headspace.

Also, you can read

http://www.exteriorballistics.com/reloadbasics/gasgunreload.cfm

which is a pretty good introduction to the special problems which are involved.

IMO, in order of increasing challenge, there are 3 kinds of reloading

1. Reloading for straight wall cartridges
2. Reloading bottleneck cartridges
3. Reloading bottleneck cartridges for gas guns

The reason why I mention this is because I had quite a few years of #1 under my belt and a little bit of #2 and I thought I knew what I was doing. Fortunately, I read up on Garands and learned there was a little more to it.
So far I have managed to stay out of trouble...

 

[ArchAngelCD]

well I am still experimenting. Looks like a portion of my problem with the M1 short stroking was my brass wasn't sized properly. When I bought it, it was suppose to have been sized and decapped must not have been sized.

Got another batch 46.9 grains of H4895 to try tomorrow.

I would have stopped at 46.4gr H4895 like listed in the M1 Garand ammo section of the current Hornady manual.

 

[wolfe]

Thanks archangel. I'll back off my powder drop a couple of turns.

I'll also try the operating rod...

This kind of problem makes all the info about reloading more important...

Thanks for all the help.

 

[bigedp51]

The last time out to the range I was shooting 46.0 and 46.5 grains of H4895 without any problems with cycling on my well greased M1.

 

[wolfe]

I think I need to grease the spring and also I need opinions on crimping the next of the cartridge. I had a jam today and I think it might have caught on the neck

 

[james layman]

short cycling garand

Wolfe I had a hair pulling experience of short cycling. It turned out to be the gas cylinder. The front end gauged o.k. It was hard to find someone with the rear gauge, where the gas was leaking. Maybe this will help. James

 

[Pendy]

I think I need to grease the spring and also I need opinions on crimping the next of the cartridge. I had a jam today and I think it might have caught on the neck

Does this mean you were able to shoot some with it cycling correctly, or did it jam after your first shot?

The only thing I can think of that hasn't been asked/covered by other posters is: Is it possible that your Garand already has an adjustable gas plug that just needs adjusting to your load?

I use 46gr IMR 4895 under 147gr BT (Israeli pull-downs from RMR) with great results. I haven't used H4895, but the Hornady manual states 43.2 - 46.4gr for a 150gr bullet. You're within the load ranges at 46gr, but at the high end. If it is not an adjustable gas plug, maybe back down 1gr. since you use a slightly lighter bullet, and even another 1gr if you are using military brass.

As far as crimping, don't smash the brass against the bullet, but crimp just enough so that it doesn't turn in the case neck. If it doesn't crimp in the cannelure, that's fine. As long as you are at the correct COAL and it is crimped, you will be fine.

 

[USSR]

46.0gr of 4895 is an EXCEEDING light load for 147gr FMJBT's! From 1957 to 1966, the gov't loaded M72 Match ammo with it's 174gr bullet with anywhere's from 46.0 to 48.5gr of 4895. While you are using Hodgdon's version of 4895, there's not that much difference between the two. I run 49.0gr of surplus 4895 with my 147's, which actually weigh ~ 144gr. Personally, I would up your charge weight to 47.0gr and see if the problem goes away.

Don

 

[ArchAngelCD]

46.0gr of 4895 is an EXCEEDING light load for 147gr FMJBT's! From 1957 to 1966, the gov't loaded M72 Match ammo with it's 174gr bullet with anywhere's from 46.0 to 48.5gr of 4895. While you are using Hodgdon's version of 4895, there's not that much difference between the two. I run 49.0gr of surplus 4895 with my 147's, which actually weigh ~ 144gr. Personally, I would up your charge weight to 47.0gr and see if the problem goes away.

Don

46.0gr H4895 isn't all that light although it doesn't produce the same velocity of the original military load but then again, we aren't shooting at someone trying to kill us, only at paper. The difference in charge weights between H4895 and IMR4895 can be between .5gr and 1.0gr.

IMO when shooting a Garand at matches accuracy is more important than matching military velocities.

 

[USSR]

46.0gr H4895 isn't all that light although it doesn't produce the same velocity of the original military load but then again, we aren't shooting at someone trying to kill us, only at paper.

Well, then how do you explain the 46.0 - 48.5gr load of 4895 used in USGI M72 Match ammo with a 174gr bullet, that was used only for shooting at paper? Again, with his problem, I would try more powder.

Don

 

[wolfe]

I got a couple off the other day and actually got a whole clip off with only one short stroke. This is with the 46.9 gr of H4895. The last two problems I had is with the brass catching and locking it up.

I have 3 clips loaded up and going to try them out this week if possible. I might have to grease the spring again.

If that doesn't work I am going to take some time and think about it some more.. In fact if these don't work I am going to buy some Hornady M1 Garand loades and see what happens...

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Well, then how do you explain the 46.0 - 48.5gr load of 4895 used in USGI M72 Match ammo with a 174gr bullet, that was used only for shooting at paper? Again, with his problem, I would try more powder.

Don

Was that ammo shot from a Garand of a bolt action rifle?

 

[USSR]

Was that ammo shot from a Garand of a bolt action rifle?

Both. I'm at work now, so no access to a box, but I believe it is listed at 2640fps at the 78' that the gov't tests at. Add about 40fps for the typical 10' spacing that we use with chronys.

Don

 

[ArchAngelCD]

USSR,
You can use any load you want in your rifles but when someone posts a question about "safe" ammo for their Garand I'm going to tell them what's considered perfectly safe. Sure you can add a little more powder for additional velocity but like I said, Why?

 

[USSR]

USSR,
You can use any load you want in your rifles but when someone posts a question about "safe" ammo for their Garand I'm going to tell them what's considered perfectly safe. Sure you can add a little more powder for additional velocity but like I said, Why?

Arch,

It's not just a question of "Me" adding more powder for Garand "safe" loads, it's a question of the U.S. government doing it as well. If you want to load light loads, fine. Just realize them for what they are; loads that are lighter than USGI loads. And for a guy who is having cycling problems with light loads, the obvious first step is to bring your loads up to pressure levels that the rifle was designed to operate at to see if that is what the problem is. Just MHO.

Don

 

[ArchAngelCD]

46.4gr is the load give by Hornady in their newest manual. That load will not cause feeding problems. I can't find the paperwork on the velocity readings I got with 46.0gr and 46.4gr in my Garand but I "think" it was right around 2600 fps with the 46.0gr load but I couldn't swear to that because I can't find the numbers. I did remember wanting to use the 46.4gr load in the future but I have absolutely no feed problems with the 46.0gr load and all the brass was well clear of the area when fired.

You're acting like that load is a youth load or something like that. Remember, I'm not talking about IRM4895 but the Hodgdon offering.

 

[wolfe]

Sounds like I need to drop my load from 46.9 to 46.4 grains....

I have 24 rounds loaded with 46.9, i am going to be sure those don't short stroke but not until after I break it down again and check the "tilt test".

I'll let you know the results...