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New boomstick: AI-AWP (PICS)

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gotime242,

Follow the link to TacPro a few posts above for pricing.

Gewehr98,

There is currently a group-buy on SnipersHide (optics forum) which makes the SN-3 look almost affordable, starting at only ~ 30% more than the NF. Or you can get an ST-10 for about the same cost as a 2.5-10x NF.

Here's what convinced me- A friend of mine has the 3.7-17x44mm SN-3. I have the 5.5-22x56mm NF. We put both on 10x and looked through them at late afternoon until full dark. The brightness was pretty close, but the SN3 resolved detail the NF didn't. Remember that the NF had 12mm more objective. The SN3 also has the option of the Horus reticles, 0.1mil clicks, and the EREK 1-revolution elevation knob (zero-stop).

My immediate purpose for getting this rig together is to shoot matches like the ITRC and our local Sporting Rifle Match in Raton. The idea behind the second barrel in 260REM is to shoot a 140gr VLD (BC 0.62) at 2950-3000fps, which has external ballistics real similar to 6.5-284 or 7RM. http://demigod.org/~zak/tmp/ballistics.html


-z
 
thanks, yeah i tried it before, but was having a hard time finding it on the site...i just looked harder. nice gun though, congrats to you!
 
I am still intrigued by the AICS system...

Zak, is it a 'drop in' type of deal, or does it require a gunsmith to fit the action to the chassis?

I'm more and more and more intrigued...because...just looking at the basic setup:

AI in almost any caliber: >$3,000

700 AICS: >$1,200

That leaves quite a bit of money to spend on quality glass, beer, ramen noodles, etc. I know that the whole hog AI setup would be better...but would it be $1,800+ better?

I dunno.

Mike
 
Zak, before you put your eggs in Walt Berger's VLD basket...

Take a look at the Lapua 144gr FMJBT at .636, and the 139gr Lapua Scenar at .615 (Not as clean as the .627 BC VLD, but cheaper for practice)

I've been running the Scenars out to 1000 yards in my 6.5-06 with excellent results.

I've also ordered two batches of Lost River Ballistic 6.5mm bullets. I bought both their 132gr J40's, at .702 BC., and their 120gr J36's, at .687 BC.

The latter J36 above might be the cat's meow for a small-capacity case like the .260 Remington. ;)
 
Here's what convinced me- A friend of mine has the 3.7-17x44mm SN-3. I have the 5.5-22x56mm NF. We put both on 10x and looked through them at late afternoon until full dark. The brightness was pretty close, but the SN3 resolved detail the NF didn't. Remember that the NF had 12mm more objective. The SN3 also has the option of the Horus reticles, 0.1mil clicks, and the EREK 1-revolution elevation knob (zero-stop).
Click to expand...

I've got the NF 5.5-22x56mm on my Barrett M82. Been thinking about adding the zero-stop turretts, do you have those?

How's the exit pupil on that USO 3.7-17x? Your side-by-side results are damn impressive, especially considering the objective sizes involved. I keep hearing good things.

Are you ordering one new/custom? How's the wait?


One of these years I'll pick up an AW .308 (and probally an AWM .338 too.) So many other toys closer to being calibanned though! ;D
 
Coronach,

I believe it just drops in.

Yes. :D

Gewehr98,

I'll take a look at them. I need ready availability and affordable prices, as well as accuracy and high BC.

artherd,

I do not have the zero-stop on my NXS, mainly because I can't order one that way, dealers can't stock them that way, and NF requires a LEO letterhead to do the conversion. I don't want to deal with that kind of BS.

I don't have the specs on the exit pupil size of the SN-3. If the NF's exit pupil scales linearly with the power (inverse), then it should be around 4.55mm at 10x.

The SN-3 group buy on S.H. is custom within some gross parameters, and they're built custom. I heard the wait is 3-4 weeks, but I don't know for certain. I still need to talk to the folks at USO.
 
Coronach,

I believe it just drops in.

Yes. :D
Click to expand...
Oh frickin' SWEET. I wonder how much of an improvement this is over a standard, unbedded stock?

Mike
 
(Voice of Zaks Mom)

Mister Smith can't come out an play

Stop playing with your firearms and start raking those leaves young man!

Very cool...but with thant range, now you need to get a quad runner to go change targets!
 
Zak- I thought NF droped all that "LEO only scope knobs" silliness?

Mike- FYI on the AICS and mags. Upshot is in .308 it takes it's own 5 or 10 round mags.

9. The AICS .308 short action magazines are NOT interchangeable with the AI AW or AE rifles. The long action .300win mag and .338 Lapua mag AICS magazines ARE interchangeable with the AI AW rifles.
 
When I last chatted with my NF dealer buddy about zero stop about 1 month ago, he didn't mention anything about the LEO BS being dropped.

The AW/AWP mags are double-stack, while I believe the AICS short-acton mags are single stack.

-z
 
2-20-2005, 220 yards, approx 45F, 5000' elevation, Oehler 35P

Shot # 11-13 N=3 FGMM 168gr v=2693 (14) 1.277" E-E = 0.42 MOA
[ link to LARGER image ]

Shot # 14-16 N=3 FGMM 175gr v=2638 ( 8) 1.932" E-E = 0.71 MOA

Shot # 17-19 N=3 Lapua 155gr v=2817 ( 3) 1.395" E-E = 0.48 MOA
[ link to LARGER image ]

Shot # 20-22 N=3 FGMM 168gr v=2706 ( 5) 1.308" E-E = 0.44 MOA
[ link to LARGER image ]

Shot # 23-25 N=3 FGMM 168gr v=2691 (11) 1.603" E-E = 0.57 MOA

Shot # 26-30 N=5 155 SMK**1 v=2816 ( 6) 1.491" E-E = 0.52 MOA
[ link to LARGER image ]

Shot # 31-35 N=5 175 SMK**2 v=2614 ( 3) 1.493 E-E = 0.52 MOA
[ link to LARGER image ]

Absolutely no load development was done for these two loads. I just picked two "favorite loads" from the web and stepped them down a half grain or so.
**1 = 155gr SMK, 46.5gr Varget, once fired Winchester cases, Remington #9.5
**2 = 175gr SMK, 43.9gr Varget, --, --

AVG GROUP = 0.52 MOA, s.d. = 0.097 MOA
 
FWIW: According to the German gun magazine Visier, Accuracy International has recently declared bankruptcy.

If you want one, you had better buy it while you still can before the price-gouging begins.
 
Who can translate?
http://www.visier.de//index.html
Erst war es ein Gerücht, dann bittere Realität: Die in Portsmouth/England ansässige Firma Accuracy International (AI), unter anderem auch Hersteller des Bundeswehr-Scharfschützengewehrs G 22, hat heute morgen Insolvenz angemeldet.
Bild

Das 1978 vom zweifachen Olympia-Sieger im Gewehrschießen Malcolm Cooper gegründete Unternehmen verlagerte sich vom Matchwaffenbau Anfang der 80er Jahre hin zur Fertigung von Scharfschützengewehren. Der Durchbruch gelang 1985 mit der Übernahme der PM-Modelle als L 96 A 1 bei der britischen Armee. Seitdem brummte das Geschäft — über 20 Länder orderten daraufhin bei AI. Auch bei der deutschen Bundeswehr setzte sich das Präzisionsgewehr Arctic Warfare (AW) in einer Klappschaft-Variante gegen die Konkurrenz von Mauser und Erma durch und wurde 1997 als G 22 eingeführt. Nach dem Tod Coopers im Jahr 2001 kam die Firma trotz voller Auftragsbücher ins Schlingern, denn die Exportbedingungen wurden zunehmend erschwert. Schließlich stieg dann noch vor sechs Monaten der größte Investor aus. Gerüchten zufolge gilt Heckler & Koch als einer der Hauptinteressenten. Denn nach der Übernahme der Suhler Jagd- und Sportwaffen GmbH im Jahr 2003 könnte Accuracy International das Oberndorfer Portfolio bestens abrunden. SN
Click to expand...
 
Zak, here is the Babel-Fish translation of the text above. Dunno how accurate, my German sucks.

Only it was a rumor, then bitter reality: , among other things also manufacturer of the German Federal Armed Forces sniper rifle G 22, this morning insolvency announced in Portsmouth/England the residents company Accuracy international (AI). Picture The 1978 of the double olympia winner in the rifle shooting Malcolm Cooper created enterprises shifted from the building of match weapons at the beginning of the 80's for the manufacturing of sniper rifles. The break-through succeeded 1985 with the assumption of the PM models as L 96 A 1 at the British army. Since then the business hummed - over 20 countries ordered thereupon with AI. Also with the German German Federal Armed Forces the precision rifle Arctic of throwing acres (AW) in a folding shank variant became generally accepted 1997 against the competition of Mauser and Erma and as G 22 was introduced. To death Coopers in the year 2001 came the company despite full order books into the roll, because the states of the export market were increasingly made more difficult. Finally the largest investor then still stepped out six months ago ago. According to rumors Heckler & cook are considered as one of the main prospective customers. Because after the assumption of the Suhler hunt and sporting guns GmbH in the year 2003 Accuracy international could round the Oberndorfer off Portfolio in the best way. SN
Click to expand...
 
I have GOT to get me some of that (AI-AWP.) Can't wait to see what you get out of it with more load development. I expect 1/4MOA soon (assuming, like me, you can hold that well that's about as good as I can hold even with bags :)

Zak- what do you think of the BDC in the low-profile EREK knobs? I'm not too sure if BDC is too worthwile past about 800yds. (1 load, 1 temprature, 1 altitude gun?)
 
Load development? Since this is meant to be a field gun and not a benchrest gun, I'm going to standardize on one of those half-minute loads and put all that effort into learning to shoot better.

I bet I can tweak the 175SMK/Varget load to get about 0.25MOA -- that flier looks suspicious and could have been me. 10x at 1.5" or 2" dots at 220 yards is my optical limit. Any handlaods I end up using will have to use the same bullet and have the same MV as the factory load. That way I can interchange, e.g. to pick up a case if a match is coming up and I don't have enough time to load.

Zak- what do you think of the BDC in the low-profile EREK knobs? I'm not too sure if BDC is too worthwile past about 800yds. (1 load, 1 temprature, 1 altitude gun?)
Click to expand...
You can have the EREK knob in either 0.1mil ("metric"), 0.25, or 0.5 (or maybe even 1) MOA clicks. It can be had in up to 3 revolutions in the 17x SN3 (which would mean about 27 mils elevation from the zero stop).

The only thing that would make it a generic "BDC" is that USO can print distance markings on the knob to correspond to a certain load/gun/conditions. Of course, they can print it without distance markings, instead having indicators every 10 MOA, or 1 or 0.5 mil.

I'm getting it with 0.1mil clicks/hashes, and a numeral every 0.5 mil. Thus when environmental conditions change, I just consult my new table (or PDA) and dial the new correction.

I have GOT to get me some of that (AI-AWP.)
Click to expand...

I need to sell some motorcycles or guns or something to afford the ASM338... just a matter of time.

-z
 
After shooting one of these beauties, I was pretty depressed to find out that AI did not make a LH version, until I found out that HD rifles uses a AI chassis to make a lefty.

Zak, one question: why did you go for the .308 instead of the .300 WM? Don't you get another 400-odd yards of accuracy with the bigger caliber?
 
The AICS is a great upgrade to any Rem700 rifle, that's for sure.

Accuracy alone is independent of muzzle velocity, BC, etc.. however, when you add in changing environmental conditions, range & wind estimation error, etc, the higher BC and higher MV cartridge will produce better practical "field" accuracy, even if the two rifles shoot the same from the bench at 100 yards and no wind.

If you compare 300WM (190gr SMK) to 7RM (168gr VLD) to the 6.5's (140gr VLD), the 7's and 6.5's have higher ballistic coefficients (BCs) and similar muzzle velocities (2900-3050fps). That translates to nearly identical drop but less wind drift with the 7's and 6.5's.

For example, today we were shooting 308's, 7's, 338's and 50's in wind gusting from 7-20 mph at IPSC steel targets to about 680 yards. Even though all the rifles were capable of about half MOA, 308's had a very hard time bucking the wind. Even the 338 had to dial 3 minutes to compensate.

To shoot 7RM in an AI, you'd have to buy an AWM300 and then rebarrel to 7RM.
To shoot 6.5 in the form of 260REM in an AI, you buy any of the AW* models and rebarrel in 260.

My plan is to rebarrel this one in 260REM later this summer, which will shoot the 140gr Berger VLD's at 2900-3000fps.

With the AW barrel change system, if I need to switch back to 308 for a "military caliber only" match, I can do so in my basement, re-zero, and be good to go.

In the long action (AWM/ASM), I think the two best choices are 7RM in a "lighter" caliber and the stock factory 338LM in a "heavier" caliber. Both can shoot bullets with BC's over 0.64 at 2950+ fps.

-z
 
Zak.....

You may now own an HK!

This just in................

"Accuracy International goes bankrupt, H&K likely to become the new owner"
 
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