New PD gun for wifey

[Monkey_King]

My wife is in the market for a .380 to keep at work next to the oxycontins (however you spell it). She has narrowed her buy down to two choices: Walther PPK or Sig P238 Equinox. Before we make the purchase I wanted to poll you guys and take advantage of the brain trust of THR. Before I get 1000 posts on how .380 are terrible pd choices or how a subcompact 9 would be better, please understand that my wife is new to handguns and we have explored many options to settle on a .380. Hopefully with weekly practice I will have her using a full size hg within a year, but for now she is practicing with a .22 lr and working toward .380. I would love to hear personal experience with either of these weapons. Thank you for your time.

 

[colt1911fan]

Walther has always been good to me but others have had bad luck and SIG has an awesome reputation and I haven't seen to many bad thing bout them.......I'd go with the SIG

 

[ATBackPackin]

The Beretta 84 or 85 might be something worth checking into.

Shawn

 

[Canazes9]

In a 380 I would prefer a Bersa or a Sig 232 to the choices you have there. They are both going to be more reliable than the current Walthers. I don't think cocked & locked is smart carry for a new shooter. Folks that are unfamiliar w/ firearms (and sometimes those that are familiar) are better served w/ a firearm that all you have to do is pick it up and pull the trigger, no safeties to manipulate.

In that vein, one final piece of advice - I know you don't want to consider anything else but a Smith 442/642 is just what the doctor ordered in this situation. No safeties to manipulate. No slide to rack, no decocker to deal w/, etc. A revolver is easy to tell if it's loaded or not, not prone to "limp wristing" problems from inexperienced shooters, very reliable. The recoil from a 442 using mild 38 special loads (comparable to 380 performance wise) is comparable to 380 recoil.

David

 

[Aahzz]

Of those 2, I'd take the Sig - but in reality I'd spend way less and buy a Bersa Thunder .380. Similar size, reliable, accurate, and easy to shoot. My wife's Bersa has been an excellent gun.

 

[benderx4]

If you want a 380 for the wife, take a look at the Beretta Cheetah 86. With the pop-up slide, no requirement to rack it. (Easy on the pedicure.) Also, it's got much less felt recoil than the Walther PPK.

 

[harmon rabb]

If your wife is not going to carry this gun, then I say the 238 is out. It's not as comfortable to hold as a gun that will let you get all your fingers on the grip.

If you want a PPK, why not get a Bersa Thunder, which is a high quality clone for half the price and with a much, much better trigger? The Bersa trigger is so much better than the PPK trigger that Walther should really be ashamed of themselves.

The berettas are nice choices too. Walther PK380 also wouldn't be bad.

 

[ojibweindian]

A light-weight .380 can be a bit much. Personally, I'd rather touch off several rounds of full power 357 Magnum out of a 2.5" S&W Model 19. Has she considered a .38 Spl revolver, like an SP101?

 

[bigfatdave]

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=564531

 

[American1776]

Hello Monkey King,

The gun I own is in fact a .380. It's a Sig P232. I wanted a handgun that both my girlfriend and I could handle and shoot, since we live together in the same house. I had her handle several different guns at the store, and it's a good thing I brought her along.
I like the Walther PPK, and I had my gf try it out. She had a VERY tough time pulling the DA trigger. My gf is a strong woman, though small (she can do 6+ pull-ups, has competed in a ToughMudder). I would have your wife at least dry fire a Walther PPK in DA before making a purchase to make sure the DA trigger is fine for her.
Also, make sure she can cycle the slide. My Sig 232 has quite a strong spring, and I can see some people not being able to reliably cycle the slide with such a strong spring. (you can always teach someone to rack the slide using the sights as a 'lever' on the corner of a table, but that's probably not optimal).
My Sig P232 is new, and just shot 100 rounds of FMJ. Zero malfunctions. Since it is an alloy framed .380, it still barks and kicks a little, but it's still reasonable. I wouldn't go much smaller or lighter than 17 oz. in a .380 (just my thoughts). Such a light and small .380 can have quite a bark to it.
Oh, and I have confidence that the .380 out of a ~3.5 inch barrel like my Sig will do plenty if I do plenty with regard to hitting where I need to hit.
Hope this helps.
All the best,
Michael

 

[Lonestar49]

Cute looking gun. 380acp, but - a handful

...

Other:

IF she wants and can afford a Sig P232 SL Equinox 380acp, then why not get a better gun, more mag load, better thin grip, easier for her to rack, let alone, clear a jam/s and softer felt recoil with a better, heavier, JHP 124gr 9mm.. ?

Not to mention having a gun cocked and locked, 2 safety's which have to agree in order for the gun to fire and the same, smooth/lighter trigger pull every shot with a 9+1 load of better 9mm over 7+1 load of the lighter/more snappy 380acp load.. ?

You might want to look at the Euro bottom mag release set up on the Sig vs others and note that the mags do not fall out, you have to pull them out, the same to clear a jam.. not easy, takes time vs the gun I'm recommending at that price level that has mag release button on side, and mags drop out and go in freely and straight as opposed to the Sig 232's Euro mag release and insert system that requires a slight angle, at first, before then can be inserted the rest of the way up and in.. This can eat up time, if not make it worse when in a moment of rush, either way, with a jam and or re-load of a back-up mag when in a rush.. not good

Take a close look at the SA EMP 9mm 1911 SAO -








Match grade 3" bull barrel - tack driver


Just let her try and load 7 rounds/snap caps at a gun store into the Sig P232's mags vs 9 rounds/snap caps into an EMP mag..

Then finish it with having her try and rack the slide on the Sig P232's blow back system (dirty system) w/a long, stiff return spring that stays that way vs the EMP's soft return springs and, much cleaner, closed breach action..

That should tell you/both that for that kind of money, one will be work the other will be user friendly, easier for her to point and shoot, quickly, and no long, hard, first DA pull that she will have with the Sig 232/ DA/SA.. vs EMP's SAO 4.5lb clean, same trigger pull/s so that she will know what she has from the first shot on..

I say all this because I did the same thing for my wife, bought her the Sig P232 SL and she never warmed up to it, along with a nice slide bite/cut and work to load the mags or cycle the slide, let alone if the gun jammed, she couldn't work the mag release and pull the slide out at the same time vs everything right and smooth with the EMP along with, most important, the DA pull vs SAO, and her change of heart, along with huge, improvement with consistency w/accuracy with a better/heavier 9mm 124gr JHP bullet vs the 380's 90gr JHP "snappy/recoil" lighter/weight bullets.

Heavier the_better

OMMV

Luck,


Ls
___________

Ps

From another thread on a Sig P232 or same, type Bersa (i.e. recoil)

Thanks for the replies, welcome, and advice. I took the Sig out yesterday to the range, and I put 100 rounds through it of FMJ Blazer. Not one malfunction, every round went bang. I'm not recoil sensitive, but I was a little surprised at the bark and kick of this little gun at first.

Not mention they're not easy to dissemble/clean and resemble - they are a little tricky

Be careful of the ejector when you remove the slide to clean. It can pivot and possibly fall off. I just keep a finger on it when cleaning to hold it in place. It helps to put a tiny drop of oil inside of the frame, at the take-down lever to allow it to swing freely.

Read from:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=599953

And think about a "man vs a woman" w/ this type 380 gun

 

[MedWheeler]

Another vote for the Bersa Thunder here. Great gun, handles well, points easily, super reliable (no matter what the fodder), and very reasonably priced.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Since carry isn't an issue, I don't see any reason not to go with a full sized .380 like the Beretta 84 family or the Sig 230/232. They feel nice in the hand, have a better reliability record and are much easier to shoot.

For a smaller .380, have you looked at the Kahr P380. The model I handled, did not get a chance to shoot it, showed excellent workmanship, had a very nice trigger and my experience with Kahr products and reliability has been excellent.

Between your two original choices, the older design (mid-30s) of the Walther has a better track record for function

 

[Monkey_King]

Thanks guys, you have given me a lot to think about. I have taken her to a few gun shops and she has handled many different 380s. Although she has yet to shoot one, she liked these two the best as far as ergonomics. She also wanted something with a hammer and safety. I agree with those of you advocating small 38s. I own a couple of S&W 38s and that is the first thing I had her shoot after starting with a 22lr. She likes the autos so here we are. After reading your comments, I will check out the ones you mentioned that she hasn't already handled. I will also look into getting a 9mm in her hands. I think she is put off by the larger grips but I will look into the slimmer ones. Thanks again, I will continue to read comments for a few days.

 

[tpelle]

I own a Bersa .380 (Actually the Firestorm version, which is the identical pistol except for the front of the trigger guard is smoothly curved and not hooked.) and have every confidence in it.

I understand, though, that Colt is re-introducing the Mustang Pocketlite, which is like a mini-1911. A friend of mine has one, and the first time I shot it I was able to repeatedly bounce a tin can around at about 10 yards or so. (I always wanted one of those little pistols, and was saving my money for one that was in the local gun shop, and when I finally had the funds and went to buy it I discovered that the Chief of Police had already purchased it the week before!)

 

[jackblack86]

another vote for the bersa 380 I have had 2 very dependable and very easy recoil my brother owned both the walther and the bersa and ended up keeping the bersa

 

[Smaug]

Other > Bersa Thunder 380

I honestly believe they're better guns than the Walthers, even at half the price.

If price were not an issue, I think I would choose a Beretta 85. I think your wife will prefer the Beretta too, as they are just the prettiest-looking 380 out there. Elegant lines, like the 92FS, but a smaller size.

 

[Beat Trash]

Not a big 380 fan here, but if you must stay with the 380...

My first choice would be a Sig 232. My second choice would be the new S&W bodyguard. Don't know if I have a third choice.

 

[HorseSoldier]

From the options, PPK, I suppose, but I don't have any hands on time with the P238.

Overall, though, I'd echo the vote for looking at some of the subcompact 9mm's. I've had a PPK and a Sig 232 along the way, and I found both to be snappier on recoil than the Walther PPS 9mm I've also owned -- for a beginning shooter I don't know that a direct blow back 380 is preferable to more modern 9mm subcompact or 38 revolver.

 

[Strykervet]

Can I make a suggestion? Assuming this is at a pharmacy, perhaps she should keep the weapon ON her and use it to preserve her life. Don't get between a desparate junkie and his dope or the door. And what happens if he gets between her and the pistol? It isn't worth it. I'd recommend you study up on what excatly happened in that NY pharmacy muliple murder a couple of weeks ago and analyze that.

 

[Strykervet]

I've heard good things about the Smith Bodyguard, it has a laser and is supposed to be easy to use for those that have little experience... Bear in mind it is very light and designed to be carried, so the recoil may be snappier than you expect. I highly recommend you take her to a rental range and let her try a few out. She may even find a 9mm there that fits the bill better... A heavier 9mm will recoil less than a small light .380 would if recoil is the issue, and of course you can tailor ammo. My wife gravitated from considering a .380 to a 9mm for this very reason and she is or was in the same boat as your wife.

 

[Strykervet]

Second the Beretta 85. Also look at Browning. They make some nice .380 mid size. They are more popular in countries that don't allow the use of 9x19 ammunition. You also could consider 9x18 Makarov, altough I have little to no experience regarding the quality or proper selection of these weapons. I do understand they have a better wounding profile than the .380.

 

[Lonestar49]

Beretta 85 or 84's - a thought/word of caution

...

Caution on the Beretta 84 or 85 model 380's..

Make sure she "rack's it a few times" if she can, because they stay that way for a long time, long time..

More important about them, their DA/SA safety decocker, up, on the frame is also hard to work, have her try that a few times as it, too, remains, stiff/hard to move, especially *UP/safety off position, the same for a long, long time, AND -

*Many can, an do, and will, push the safety UP and Red is showing and yet, NO trigger action, as IF safety is still ON, and yet by looking, red dot showing clearly, they think it is OFF but - they need to be pushed up "all the way".. that far more.

This has been reported, so many times over in the Beretta forum, along with complaints about how stiff they "remain" after 1000 rounds, along with the false sense of Safety UP and off, red dot showing, no trigger action, and when told, they push and feel it move up, just a tad more, "with effort" and then guns trigger becomes, effective..

I agree they are "sexy" - beautiful guns, but they have their low points, once bought from "affection" then put to some testing..

Now, IF one does not use the safety, and that's fine, that little grey area will be nothing to worry about and nothing wrong with having such a gun with safety always off..

Now back to racking the slide, take or get 7 snap caps, have her load mag, then rack them in/chamber and then all out, clear gun.. See what she says cause that's how its gonna be for years and years.. along with decocker/safety lever.

To be clear, they're beautiful guns, many happy owners, but most have had work done on them OR have done the work themselves to make the safety/decocker levers smooth, and some replace the factory main springs with lighter D springs to lighten both the cycle action and DA pulls.. with no worries of light strikes, and some get good guns right off the shelf, but they checked them out, as explained above - first.

Best/luck


Ls

 

[Monkey_King]

Thanks for all the imput. Based on info I gleaned from this site we got her a s&w m&p 9mm today. She loves it & that is the most important thing. Only put about 60 rounds thru it but she handled it extremely well. It did have one failure to chamber. I will worry if this continues beyond the first few hundred rnds. I didn't expect this from fmj win practice ammo but like i said it was right outta the box so I will give it a break-in period.

 

[Smaug]

delete. Duplicate.