New pistol in works for Force Recon units

[Pat_Rogers]

Arrrggghhhhh...

A definite misquote
It should read "more air in and more fluid out".

That is always a problem with being interviewed.
The writer, Gidget Fuentes, is extremely well versed in military affairs.
Once it leaves her hands and goes to the editor, anything is possible.

 

[dsk]

These Islamic nutcases are full of nothing but hot air anyway, so the original quote made perfect sense to me.

 

[Mute]

Another case of making mountains out of molehills, though some people would have you believe that all 1911s are obsolete and going to a Sig 220 would have resolved it.

See Pat Roger's response.

 

[HankB]

I am sure that the $1700+ is not simply for a handgun.

Hey, it's military procurement, right? That means kickbacks, bribes, and targeted campaign contributions.

 

[Sean Smith]

Here is a hint: the gun will almost certainly be a 1911, it will be expensive, and the Marines will choose the gun based on performance. We aren't talking about mass weapon procurement like the M9 program, we are talking about special operations.

 

[Pat_Rogers]

Allegations

HankB- if you have information about something, i am sure that various federal law enforcement organizations would love to hear what you have to say.
Are you involved in this process of acquiring a new pistol, or are you just whistleing in the wind, so to speak?

 

[fix]

Pat is right. Although military purchasing in general is a questionable process at best, specialized needs like this one are a whole different animal. The FR Marines will get what they want, based on their absolute requirements...period. Other projects with a more broad focus may succumb to outside pressures, political and economic. But this one will not. Trust me, I know how much these guys shoot and the 15,000 round requirement is not excessive in my opinion.

 

[peashooter]

Hmmmmm. I vote for a Beretta 96 punched out to .45.

 

[Sunray]

"...the one-shot stopping power ..." Neither does a .45. No pistol can guarantee a 100% one shot stop. It's physics.

 

[Pat_Rogers]

Note the next to last paragraph.

 

[ajacobs]

Well while Pat isn't talking yet, which I understand, I wonder what the requirements are in the request. It sounds like they opened it up to non 1911's after trying once and failing to get a satisfactory one. (don't get me wrong 1911 are my favorite pattern of pistol I just don't have a 15000 round requirement). Also the article devotes some time to the nessesity of parts replacement in the feild. That is going to require a tru assembley line 1911 with very tight tollerances (maybe this is what sig was attempting) or other types of pistols that require no hand fitting but can still stand up to the requirement. I just hope it is 1911, I would like them to stay in service.

 

[Pat_Rogers]

Note that the requirements are not for 15K. That is a rough per deployment figure, but does not take into consideration Unit Weapons and Tactics training.
The req is for 30K. It is not at all unusual for some MEU(SOC) pistols to greatly exceed this. However, parts do wear and need to be replaced.

Don't read anything into the article. The 1911 is the desired platform- that is what the shooters want.
It is open to all of course, but grip circumference, LOP, and other issues are paramount.

 

[ajacobs]

Ahh good, Having worded RFP's myself I know you can get exactly what you want.

 

[45auto]

It seems the "3" entries did make it to the 10,000 round mark before "failure", which I assume means the gun stopped working and couldn't be quickly put back into action.

They are not talking about feed jams... correct?

 

[ballistic gelatin]

I met a guy a while back in the barber shop who claimed to be the Director of North American Law Enforcement Sales for SigArms. I bet he is very excited right now....I still daydream about working for him.

 

[buzz_knox]

Would that be ToddG from sigforum.com?

 

[artherd]

Kimber makes a nice LAPD SWAP 1911.

And then there's the Glock G30

 

[ballistic gelatin]

buzz_knox I don't know but perhaps I should find out....thanks for the tip.

 

[jnb01]

Just speculation on my part. These two pistols may be possibilities?

Sig P220ST - It's all steel construction should prove more durable than the alloy version. Enhanced shootability do to it's increased weight. With the "k" trigger option it provides a consistent lighter trigger pull, while being hammer fired to provide for second strike capability. Improved corrosion resistance vs. alloy version. The P226 and P228 are already in Military use, including with elite units. It's equipped with a light rail. Should be easier to maintain and repair vs. their current hand-built 1911's.

HK USP F/S - Interestingly, HK is building a manufacturing facility in Columbus, Georgia. They are also building a new rifle for the Army said to be replacing the M16 and M4 carbine, called the XM8. The USP is a durable and lighter weight pistol for it's size. Offers a 12-rd. capacity. Comes equipped with a light rail. Corrosion resistent frame material with a pretty good finish on slide. The LEM trigger option provides a consistent lighter trigger pull, while still being hammer fired. The MK23 is already in use with an elite unit, the Navy Seals. Should prove easier to maintain and repair vs. their current hand-built 1911's.

Best, jnb01

 

[Erik]

Err, no.

They folks asking for the pistols know what they need and want, and fortunately, have brass willing to provide it.

The long and short of it is that they will be getting 1911s.

 

[coverdog]

Do not forget the Ruger P-90s and P-97s, they will hold their own against the others.

They are looking for a new handgun, not a brick.

 

[Master Blaster]

It wont be a Glock because the military does not think that striker fired pistols are reliable enough, Its got to have a hammer for the military.

USP would probably fit the bill, if it can go 30,000 rounds which I doubt.

Can a USP be fixed in the field when something breaks???????

 

[Blueduck]

Easy maintenance. This is the single biggest key performance parameter for a unit. "It has got to have drop-in parts " Smith said.

I would hope at least some of the 1911's should meet the accuracy, durability, and relibility requirments BUT I think even most 1911 fans will admit combining all that with the above has never been the 1911's strong suit compared to more modern designs. How many times have we heard about "Drop in" 1911 parts that rarely are.

If they have really opened up the testing for an honest evaluation of what can meet thier needs as compared to what they have already decided they want, it might get real interesting...

 

[buzz_knox]

If they have really opened up the testing for an honest evaluation of what can meet thier needs as compared to what they have already decided they want, it might get real interesting...

What they want is what will meet their needs. This isn't being done in a vacuum, it's being done based on years of real-world experience with putting steel on target (sometimes targets that bleed or shoot back). They have determined that the 1911 platform is the best for that job (killing bad people), and they are now looking for the best 1911 to meet the mission need.

 

[Sean Smith]

How many times have we heard about "Drop in" 1911 parts that rarely are.

Factory 1911s are assembled almost exclusively from great big piles of drop-in parts. Very little actual fitting goes on. How do you think the military maintained the 1911 and 1911A1 guns they had for 70+ years? Lots of drop-in replacement parts. The MEU(SOC) 1911s were only a maintenance problem because they were hand-made custom guns.