dmazur
Member
LOL
Perhaps print out a few "bear threads" to read aloud...this would provide amusement for yourself and your companions and would probably occupy most of the time afield.
New Shooter to the 44 mag
- Thread starter racine
- Start date
- Status
LOL
Perhaps print out a few "bear threads" to read aloud...this would provide amusement for yourself and your companions and would probably occupy most of the time afield.
"...Second, I think taking an unfamiliar magnum handgun to Yellowstone to ward off grizzlies in two weeks is a bad idea. Holding heated conversations with friends or even yourself would be a far better method for keeping grizzlies away in the backcountry..."
Perhaps for someone who's never shot a pistol or one who puts 100 rounds downrange a year, yeah. I posed the question as a seasoned shooter asking for tips on managing a bigger caliber. I'll put 300-400rds downrange for practice 2-3x a week during the course of competing 6-8 mon. out of the year. But as I stated earlier, my caliber is either 40sw or 45acp with a power factor of 170+. I also don't shoot revolver exclusively but rotate a 1911, HK, Gloxs, 20ga./12ga., 223, 30/06, etc...
Is there something inherently different from drawing, shooting a 44 at close targets vs. any other large caliber handgun that has been overlooked here?
Thx
Perhaps for someone who's never shot a pistol or one who puts 100 rounds downrange a year, yeah. I posed the question as a seasoned shooter asking for tips on managing a bigger caliber. I'll put 300-400rds downrange for practice 2-3x a week during the course of competing 6-8 mon. out of the year. But as I stated earlier, my caliber is either 40sw or 45acp with a power factor of 170+. I also don't shoot revolver exclusively but rotate a 1911, HK, Gloxs, 20ga./12ga., 223, 30/06, etc...
Is there something inherently different from drawing, shooting a 44 at close targets vs. any other large caliber handgun that has been overlooked here?
Thx
JackCrow
Member
The initial grip and draw for a revolver is somewhat different than that of an autoloader, it is also common for your support hand thumb to be far forward with a auto. This might cause you a bit of trouble in a high stress situation. DO NOT put your support hand thumb past the front edge of the cylinder!
Enjoy your trip!
Enjoy your trip!
Karl Hungus
Member
Racine - I hope you don't think I was questioning your competence with firearms. The thing is that any revolver short of something ridiculous like a 45/70 is going to be very very marginal against a grizzly. That is assuming you are a superhuman enough shot to hit a grizzly in the face as it's charging you. I think even the top competitive pistol shooters would not do well in the Charging Deathmachine event. IMO carrying a magnum handgun in grizzly country is a psychological advantage at best. I've lived just north of Yellowstone and personally the large ungulates are scarier than any grizzly. There's footage that they used to show seasonal park employees of a buffalo tossing a tourist twenty feet in the air. Hey - as long as you don't mind lugging it around it's not going to hurt anything but seriously I'd just carry a 9mm. I think far more people have been killed in National Parks in the past couple decades by psychotic humans than the wildlife. And a 9mm will put down a psychotic human just fine.
Magnumite
Member
I shoot thumbs forward with the semi autos and lighter recoiling revolvers, slow or fast. I've used both thumbs forward when shooting fast double action revolver using heavy recoiling loads and it works my support hand grip loose. What works best for me is using support hand thumb over strong hand thumb to keep my support hand grip losing its integrity.
I can shoot well one handed, DA and heavy loads, but the two hand hold definitely wins that contest.
I can shoot well one handed, DA and heavy loads, but the two hand hold definitely wins that contest.
thom1960
Member
Firm grip, aim, squeeze then start saving your pennies cuz you're gonna want one of your own!
Taurus 617 CCW
Member
I carried that exact gun in Alaska a few years ago. I had it loaded with 300 grain Federals (warning: Do not feed that gun a steady diet of them). For practice I used 240 grain FMJ or semi jacketed hollow points. .44 specials are nice to shoot out of it but if you get used to them, then the recoil of the 300 grain bullet is going to be an earth-shattering surprise.
A very informative page from the AK Dept. of Fish and Game
http://www.wildlife.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=bears.bearfax
gd
http://www.wildlife.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=bears.bearfax
gd
How it shoots
I just got a holster for the 629 and put about 60 rounds in it yesterday. Not bad at all. It averages 7 inches at 20 ft with all bullets on paper rapid fire DA. I was shooting Blazer 240 gr at 1100fps and some Win Super X 20 gr at 1200fps. The SW 629 has a very nice and smooth trigger. I'm just hoping it can handle the stress of some Buffalo Bore 305 gr at 1350fps. I'm not sure I can do rapid fire as well as with the regular stuff. I'm anticipating much more recoil. I'm getting some in next week. Anyone notice the mauling at the Soda Butte campground in Yellowstone the other day? There were 2 injuries and one fatality(he got caught inside his tent). I need to mention this to the park ranger who said that would be all I needed in the park. The woman injured was also camping.
I just got a holster for the 629 and put about 60 rounds in it yesterday. Not bad at all. It averages 7 inches at 20 ft with all bullets on paper rapid fire DA. I was shooting Blazer 240 gr at 1100fps and some Win Super X 20 gr at 1200fps. The SW 629 has a very nice and smooth trigger. I'm just hoping it can handle the stress of some Buffalo Bore 305 gr at 1350fps. I'm not sure I can do rapid fire as well as with the regular stuff. I'm anticipating much more recoil. I'm getting some in next week. Anyone notice the mauling at the Soda Butte campground in Yellowstone the other day? There were 2 injuries and one fatality(he got caught inside his tent). I need to mention this to the park ranger who said that would be all I needed in the park. The woman injured was also camping.
The Lone Haranguer
Member
I would not count on any kind of rapid fire controllability, at least with full power loads. The .44 Mag. was designed for hunting, i.e., a carefully controlled first shot, usually from a position where the animal is caught unawares.
Karl Hungus
Member
The lesson to be learned? DON'T SLEEP IN YELLOWSTONE!!
S&W 500 mag + 50 bottles of Five Hour Energy = safety in Yellowstone.
Magnumite
Member
Using a DA revolver, fast accurate DA shooting with full power 44 Magnum loads is entirely possible. It takes logical approach, persevence and practice. You won't get there overnight if you are not used to magnum recoil.
Nevmavrick
Member
New shooter
For love nor money, I can't figure why someone that is experienced with a .45 auto would choose to change caliber and action-type. The .45 was designed to be a stopper, and has done that VERY well for a long time. Many of the holsters for the big autos hold the gun high, and often tight against the body. They're easy to carry for long periods that way, and don't hang up on brush as easily as hunting-style holsters.
If you already carry and use a big auto, you will draw and hit much better than an unfamiliar revolver once the decision is made.
You will react as you've been trained. Of course, the better you've been trained, the better, and faster, you'll react. I suspect you're not going to get much training in two weeks, anyway.
I believe that's one important reason that so many experienced outdoorsmen recommend a short shotgun for those who don't spend a lot of time in the bush.
The op is ready to leave, or already gone on his trip....and nothing will happen but a great time....probably. "Sometimes 'probably' just isn't good enough." LOL
Have fun,
Gene
For love nor money, I can't figure why someone that is experienced with a .45 auto would choose to change caliber and action-type. The .45 was designed to be a stopper, and has done that VERY well for a long time. Many of the holsters for the big autos hold the gun high, and often tight against the body. They're easy to carry for long periods that way, and don't hang up on brush as easily as hunting-style holsters.
If you already carry and use a big auto, you will draw and hit much better than an unfamiliar revolver once the decision is made.
You will react as you've been trained. Of course, the better you've been trained, the better, and faster, you'll react. I suspect you're not going to get much training in two weeks, anyway.
I believe that's one important reason that so many experienced outdoorsmen recommend a short shotgun for those who don't spend a lot of time in the bush.
The op is ready to leave, or already gone on his trip....and nothing will happen but a great time....probably. "Sometimes 'probably' just isn't good enough." LOL
Have fun,
Gene
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Well, we may debate about whether .44 Mag is more than a marginal bear-defense round, and whether you can land better hits with a revolver or a shotgun, and whether you will have the more powerful shotgun with you when you really need it -- BUT, I'm pretty certain I've never heard anyone put forth the idea that a .45 ACP would be much more effective than a fly-swatter against a grizzly bear.
Sure, sure, shot placement is KEY ... I think in that case, your best bet will be to hold your fire until you're really in position to make the kill. A .45 ACP shot from inside the bear's stomach should be able to penetrate to the heart.
glenizen
Member
You, Sir, are my new hero ;-)Well, we may debate about whether .44 Mag is more than a marginal bear-defense round, and whether you can land better hits with a revolver or a shotgun, and whether you will have the more powerful shotgun with you when you really need it -- BUT, I'm pretty certain I've never heard anyone put forth the idea that a .45 ACP would be much more effective than a fly-swatter against a grizzly bear.
Sure, sure, shot placement is KEY ... I think in that case, your best bet will be to hold your fire until you're really in position to make the kill. A .45 ACP shot from inside the bear's stomach should be able to penetrate to the heart.
I haven't spent a lot of time on this site, but after reading your posts in this thread I am reassessing my firearm forum time management
The .44 Mag is near and dear to me. I grew up using long guns in the backwoods of Oklahoma; was a proud owner of the Expert Marksman badge in the U.S. Army; and always considered handguns to be mere curiosities & playthings.
It was only a year and a half ago that my new wife expressed interest in acquiring a handgun to replace the .45 "Magnum" she had as her car gun in Alaska. This being my second marriage, I was able to restrain myself from scoffing, "There isn't a .45 Magnum!" :-| I never did figure out what exactly she was describing - my best guess is a +P .45 ACP. I asked her why she needed such a powerful handgun, and she proceeded to enlighten me to an apparent commonplace in Alaskan culture wherein everyone (at least those that are not Darwin Award candidates) carries a BIG Magnum everywhere in order to defend themselves against BIG Bears - esp. the Ursus arctos horribilis - and other HUGE animals (moose roadkill?).
I thanked her for the lesson and suggested that we start her off with a 9 mm as there are no Ursus arctos horribilis here on the California Central Coast nor other massive animal threats. And her small frame and light body weight coupled with her aging joints (we are no longer spring chickens) are not exactly amenable to Big Recoil firearms. She has been quite comfortable with that and absolutely refuses to shoot the .44 Mag Desert Eagle, S&W Model 29 Classic, or even the Glock 27 that I bought for us to try out.
I, however, LOVE my Desert Eagle. It was my first .44 Mag. I did not plan it that way. A shooting buddy decided to sell his & a mutual buddy whispered that in my ear at the range one day. I immediately bought it. Then I learned how to reload ;-) Which is an absolute must in order to have any pleasure with the ammo finicky/picky DE :-| I quickly found my perfect load. One hot enough so that DE cycles perfectly 100% of the time and have subsequently run over 3K rounds through it in the sixteen months I've owned it ;-)
Six months later I was buying ammo at one of those tricky gun stores - you guys know the ones; where they place delectable treats in glass counters right at the register? And there, under the glass, was the most beautiful S&W 29 Classic ;-) I bought it.
I have since won our local Bowling Pin match revolver competition with the Smith and the semi-auto competition with the DE
I apologize for the overly wordy, long post. For those who persevered through it - thank you. And thanks to those who gave excellent advice to the OP ;-)
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
I think some folks are under the false impression that .45 hardball will be a good penetrator and break bones. Nothing could be further from the truth. Most commerical hardball has a thin jacket and a deadsoft lead core. They easily deform and separate and a roundnose isn't gonna create much of a wound channel anyway.
Nevmavrick
Member
New shooter
When I said I thought the .45 would be a good choice FOR AN EXPERIENCED .45 SHOOTER, I hadn't taken into consideration that there MAY have been a genetic mutation in flys in the back country, so that flyswatters are different than when I was hunting trophy Deerflys! LOL
My belief is also based on the unlikely probability of an exciting encounter. The tool will be carried a LOT more than it will be used. The less weight carried the more comfortable.
Another point, the confrontation WILL be at VERY close range. You can't go around popping at bears because they make a little noise at you. If one runs at you from 50yds, he'll PROBABLY stop, but he'll be quite close before you're sure. It won't take long! If it's a real charge, you're gonna get hurt. You want to minimize the damage.
The FMJ bullet IS a soft core bullet, and the jacket is thin, being for FEEDING not penetration, BUT even a .44, .475, or .500 that breaks bones is NOT going to stop a big bear at 20ft! A broken shoulder doesn't disable a major predator, it just irritates them. I'm not saying that he won't die, I'm just saying it's going to take a while! The .45 will penetrate fine in the places that need to be penetrated. And I strongly recommend FMJs over HPs as HPs are for easily discouraged targets, like BGs, that have light bones.
If you are not experienced with a .45 Auto, I sure don't think it's a good idea, but if you're not experienced with a Magnum, I don't think THAT is a good idea, either.
When I go out to shoot handguns, I practice with my M58 .41 Magnum, and usually shoot 200-400 rounds a week. A full load of Herco or 2400 with a hard-cast SWC keeps my wrist in shape. I practice a box or so with rapid fire steel targets.
When I take my .45, it's a full-frame, and I use several, multi-range, steel poppers. The idea is to maximize the hits, with the minimum of shots. The targets are 8" and set from 15yds to 30yds.
FWIW, my hunting handgun is an M57 6" .41, and I practice out to about 100yds.
Have fun,
Gene
When I said I thought the .45 would be a good choice FOR AN EXPERIENCED .45 SHOOTER, I hadn't taken into consideration that there MAY have been a genetic mutation in flys in the back country, so that flyswatters are different than when I was hunting trophy Deerflys! LOL
My belief is also based on the unlikely probability of an exciting encounter. The tool will be carried a LOT more than it will be used. The less weight carried the more comfortable.
Another point, the confrontation WILL be at VERY close range. You can't go around popping at bears because they make a little noise at you. If one runs at you from 50yds, he'll PROBABLY stop, but he'll be quite close before you're sure. It won't take long! If it's a real charge, you're gonna get hurt. You want to minimize the damage.
The FMJ bullet IS a soft core bullet, and the jacket is thin, being for FEEDING not penetration, BUT even a .44, .475, or .500 that breaks bones is NOT going to stop a big bear at 20ft! A broken shoulder doesn't disable a major predator, it just irritates them. I'm not saying that he won't die, I'm just saying it's going to take a while! The .45 will penetrate fine in the places that need to be penetrated. And I strongly recommend FMJs over HPs as HPs are for easily discouraged targets, like BGs, that have light bones.
If you are not experienced with a .45 Auto, I sure don't think it's a good idea, but if you're not experienced with a Magnum, I don't think THAT is a good idea, either.
When I go out to shoot handguns, I practice with my M58 .41 Magnum, and usually shoot 200-400 rounds a week. A full load of Herco or 2400 with a hard-cast SWC keeps my wrist in shape. I practice a box or so with rapid fire steel targets.
When I take my .45, it's a full-frame, and I use several, multi-range, steel poppers. The idea is to maximize the hits, with the minimum of shots. The targets are 8" and set from 15yds to 30yds.
FWIW, my hunting handgun is an M57 6" .41, and I practice out to about 100yds.
Have fun,
Gene
bsms
Member
Yellowstone isn't Alaska. A female Grizzly may run 300-400 lbs (the one that just killed the guy was estimated at that size), and the males 500+. A .45 might do the trick, particularly on one of the smaller females, but I'd strongly prefer a 44 with bullets designed for deep penetration.
I am not going to be hunting Griz, and will not be near any Griz. Black bears maybe, wild dogs, mountain lion (cougar) possibly, Wild Boar definitely.
Tomorrow I take the .44 Magnum SBH 5.5" barrel with Beartooth Bullets 250 grain WFNGC with up to 11 grains Unique, and up to 20 grains 2400. It is the 250 grainer not the 300 grainer, but I am confident that if I were to run into anything on 2 to 4 legs in my part of the country that bullet from my Revolver would go through at least two of what ever it is. I am sure the penetration on a Griz would be pretty good also. This is site unseen, and not field tested, but just from the construction and looks of the bullet it seems like something you would want in your gun if you had to save your life.
Tomorrow I take the .44 Magnum SBH 5.5" barrel with Beartooth Bullets 250 grain WFNGC with up to 11 grains Unique, and up to 20 grains 2400. It is the 250 grainer not the 300 grainer, but I am confident that if I were to run into anything on 2 to 4 legs in my part of the country that bullet from my Revolver would go through at least two of what ever it is. I am sure the penetration on a Griz would be pretty good also. This is site unseen, and not field tested, but just from the construction and looks of the bullet it seems like something you would want in your gun if you had to save your life.
Palehorseman
Member
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2009
- Messages
- 736
If you ever have to use it for real, recoil and noise will be of little or no concern.
And Jellystone is not the end all, just go up into Sunlight Basin (WY) for beautiful scenery and trout, especially on Little Sunlight Creek. (and there are more than a few griz)
Or, if you don't want to encounter griz, (or, one used to not) the Big Horns are also beautiful and the trout fishing is first class.
Of course just me, but for griz defense I would prefer a 18" barreled two row 12 loaded with 3" 000 buck slung over my shoulder .
And Jellystone is not the end all, just go up into Sunlight Basin (WY) for beautiful scenery and trout, especially on Little Sunlight Creek. (and there are more than a few griz)
Or, if you don't want to encounter griz, (or, one used to not) the Big Horns are also beautiful and the trout fishing is first class.
Of course just me, but for griz defense I would prefer a 18" barreled two row 12 loaded with 3" 000 buck slung over my shoulder .
Last edited:
Many good suggestions here gents. I suppose that given the best option, I would have a fishing partner to hike, camp and fish with. We were going to rotate carrying the 12 ga (with 3" full power slugs) with the 44 mag. We would also both have pepper spray. When my fishing buddy had to cancel at the last minute I ruled out the 12 for weight restrictions and the length of the hike. Pepper spray would also be my first response for discouraging confrontations -with the 44 as backup. I understand some of the concerns here about caliber and familiarity so my answer to that was/is weapons training(albeit 2 weeks worth). This new law allowing weapons into National Parks is going to startle some tourists unfamiliar with guns in general, and much more, the foreign legion. I remember my surprise & concern the first time I ran into someone fully loaded for open carry 30+ years ago as well. One thing that always rings in my head whether I'm in the Rockies or in Nah Olins is " carry enough gun." As least that I can legally carry. I relish my freedoms, the great outdoors and my family so I want to have those rights as long as possible. I appreciate the practical advice I've received here and will use that which I deem realistic. Thanks Much!
Racine
Racine
washambala
Member
A slightly off topic note: There was an article in NRAs American Rifleman magazine for this month that had an interesting story in the armed citizen section. As I recall, it said that a guy and his girlfriend were in one of Alaska's national parks when they got jumped by old griz. the guy pulls out a 45ACP pistol (dont think it gave a make or model) and unloaded 9 rounds into the thing before it stopped coming toward them.
I remember the first thought I had after finishing that paragraph: "Only nine?"
I remember the first thought I had after finishing that paragraph: "Only nine?"
Buck Snort
Member
flipajig wrote: "Personly I woud use a good 240 or a 300grn hard cast bullet running around 1200rpm. That is what im shooting in my SBH and im verry pleased with it."
Well placed shots with that load will stop anything but the most determined nasty critter on the N. American continent (with the possible exception of my ex-wife!!).
Well placed shots with that load will stop anything but the most determined nasty critter on the N. American continent (with the possible exception of my ex-wife!!).
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
The 250gr WFN should be a good bullet for just about anything commonly encountered.
- Status
