Yea, if that "one blog post" (by the way, what does the NUMBER of blog posts have to do with anything?) calls us "terrorists" for owning certain firearms, proclaims that certain firearms have "no place," etc. He didn't just make one off hand comment in that article. I read it before it was removed. He was specific and quite pointed. The fact that he felt comfortable enough to say that much anti gun crap to the outdoor life crowd, means it wasn't the first time he's said it. We all know anti 2nd amendment hunters (who all deny that they're anti 2nd amendment) and how they subtly bash the "extremists" every chance they get.
News article on the "terrorist" rifle blogging fiasco.
- Thread starter Outlaws
- Start date
- Status
Ragnar Danneskjold
Member
I don't think you're getting my point.
Let's say I believe cars that are painted blue should be illegal. I post as such on my website. That's just one guy spouting his opinion. Now if I go out and try to get others to believe the same, AND try to get legislation passed to make them illegal, THAT would be a "crusade" against blue cars.
Zumbo spouted off a dumb idea on his blog. He said "terrorist rifles" should not be legal for hunting. A stupid thing to say. No one is saying it's not.
Did he contact his congressmen and ask them to sponsor legislation to ban black rifles? Did he organize a political action committee or try to raise funds to get black rifles banned? Did he put commercials on TV telling all hunters and regular joes alike to vote YES on his proposal to ban black rifles?
As far as I know, he did none of those things. He's not waging a crusade against black rifles.
Think of something you don't like. Think of something you think is stupid or unnecessary. Do you like "reality TV"? If no, have you ever told anyone you don't like reality TV? Have you ever said "man these reality shows are stupid. I wish networks would stop showing this crap" ? Does that mean you are on a crusade to ban reality TV?
Telling people you don't like something and waging a crusade against it are not the same thing.
I understand this whole issue gets people really emotional, but let's at least try to be rational and correct about it. Nothing in Zumbo's actions or words comes close to reaching the level of "a crusade".
Let's say I believe cars that are painted blue should be illegal. I post as such on my website. That's just one guy spouting his opinion. Now if I go out and try to get others to believe the same, AND try to get legislation passed to make them illegal, THAT would be a "crusade" against blue cars.
Zumbo spouted off a dumb idea on his blog. He said "terrorist rifles" should not be legal for hunting. A stupid thing to say. No one is saying it's not.
Did he contact his congressmen and ask them to sponsor legislation to ban black rifles? Did he organize a political action committee or try to raise funds to get black rifles banned? Did he put commercials on TV telling all hunters and regular joes alike to vote YES on his proposal to ban black rifles?
As far as I know, he did none of those things. He's not waging a crusade against black rifles.
Think of something you don't like. Think of something you think is stupid or unnecessary. Do you like "reality TV"? If no, have you ever told anyone you don't like reality TV? Have you ever said "man these reality shows are stupid. I wish networks would stop showing this crap" ? Does that mean you are on a crusade to ban reality TV?
Telling people you don't like something and waging a crusade against it are not the same thing.
I understand this whole issue gets people really emotional, but let's at least try to be rational and correct about it. Nothing in Zumbo's actions or words comes close to reaching the level of "a crusade".
Selfdfenz
Member
Jim,
Zumbo drew the line and the sand and blog readers stepped over that line. He made a decision and it got him canned. I call that completely fair.
If there is a fraternity of Fudd's in the hunting community which (1) subconsciously resents the equipment used by the non-hunting fraternity & (2) believe the black rifle cadre is bringing H--- and Damnation down on them they must be re-educated.
Too many in the hunting fraternity need to realize that, as has been so often said here on THR, 2A is not about hunting. I always find it somewhat interesting that many hunters openly, even proudly state, they don't belong to the NRA and disagree with the way the NRA does things. I guess they think Bass Pro has their right to hunt covered.
Zumbo = poster boy for wrong headedness and, as a lifelong hunter, he is precisely the kind of guy I don’t regret being knocked of his bully pulpit permanently.
Good riddance.
S-
Travis Lee
Member
He may not be on a personal crusade, but he wrote things which may as well have come straight from Sarah Brady, and his words, as well as his SUPPOSED STATURE as a shooter, "sportsman", and spokesman for Remigton now serves those WHO ARE ON A CRUSADE against us.
He felt comfortable enough with his dead tree readers to throw us under the bus, but the world spins a different way in the 21st century. Our complaints to Remington don't get slowed by snail mail, and our forums amplify our individual voices that cannot be squelched by letters to the editor.
You figure you owe him warm fuzzies, a big hug, and restoration of his rapidly disappearing livlihood? Swell. YOU go write him a check! I sure as heck don't owe him a thing.
I never heard of this guy, until he shot off his mouth, calling me a terrorist, and saying that I have no place in HIS woods, HIS fields, and HIS shooting fraternity. You may call that "freedom of speech" I call that despicable elitism.
As it turns out, people like ME buy a lot more STUFF from the companies which have previously given him a livlihood, and my dollars seem to have more influence than the blue steel/walnut guys who use one a box of ammo to sight in and shoot one bambi every year.
When he started feeling the heat, he claimed he was tired, it was windy, his feet were sore, and gee whiz he flies the US flag!...... He's not so much a gun guy after all..... and he NEVER renounced the main points of his article.
What I especially resent are the suggestions that Zumbo has the right of free speech and the rest of us should just shove a sock in it, and shut up. Zumbo just got Rathered and he deserved every bit of it.
If he can no longer get corporate sponsors to finance his planned trips to Botswana, or Bolivia, or Tuvalu so he can slay mighty muskrats, I am just not very sympathetic.
Some of us buy our own guns, buy our own ammunition, and do NOT have our words archived by the Brady Campaign.
--Travis--
He felt comfortable enough with his dead tree readers to throw us under the bus, but the world spins a different way in the 21st century. Our complaints to Remington don't get slowed by snail mail, and our forums amplify our individual voices that cannot be squelched by letters to the editor.
You figure you owe him warm fuzzies, a big hug, and restoration of his rapidly disappearing livlihood? Swell. YOU go write him a check! I sure as heck don't owe him a thing.
I never heard of this guy, until he shot off his mouth, calling me a terrorist, and saying that I have no place in HIS woods, HIS fields, and HIS shooting fraternity. You may call that "freedom of speech" I call that despicable elitism.
As it turns out, people like ME buy a lot more STUFF from the companies which have previously given him a livlihood, and my dollars seem to have more influence than the blue steel/walnut guys who use one a box of ammo to sight in and shoot one bambi every year.
When he started feeling the heat, he claimed he was tired, it was windy, his feet were sore, and gee whiz he flies the US flag!...... He's not so much a gun guy after all..... and he NEVER renounced the main points of his article.
What I especially resent are the suggestions that Zumbo has the right of free speech and the rest of us should just shove a sock in it, and shut up. Zumbo just got Rathered and he deserved every bit of it.
If he can no longer get corporate sponsors to finance his planned trips to Botswana, or Bolivia, or Tuvalu so he can slay mighty muskrats, I am just not very sympathetic.
Some of us buy our own guns, buy our own ammunition, and do NOT have our words archived by the Brady Campaign.
--Travis--
This entire incident goes to further demonstrate the anti-gun mentality exists within our own "community" and within the republican party.
Bill Ruger Sr., George HW Bush, Rudy Guiliani, et al., have publically committed themselves to an anti-gun stance. While Bill Ruger Sr's "support" of the AWB and capacity limitations were (IMO) done more to save the company from having their mini-14s, and other weapons, from being included in the list of banned weapons.
Bill Ruger Sr., George HW Bush, Rudy Guiliani, et al., have publically committed themselves to an anti-gun stance. While Bill Ruger Sr's "support" of the AWB and capacity limitations were (IMO) done more to save the company from having their mini-14s, and other weapons, from being included in the list of banned weapons.
Mongo the Mutterer
Member
Travis Lee, I was going to add to your #29, but you put it perfectly.
Right now I am on a mission with Cabela's to fire Zumbo, and I would suggest I need company.
As far as Zumbo, I do not ignore treachery and betrayal in any way shape or form. If you are my enemy, or we disagree that is fine. I know where you stand.
If you say you are on my side, don't betray me, ever. You will reap the whirlwind.
Right now I am on a mission with Cabela's to fire Zumbo, and I would suggest I need company.
As far as Zumbo, I do not ignore treachery and betrayal in any way shape or form. If you are my enemy, or we disagree that is fine. I know where you stand.
If you say you are on my side, don't betray me, ever. You will reap the whirlwind.
PennsyPlinker
Member
This is the line that got my blood pressure up. Look at all of the people who have had their careers destroyed by the left for an offhand private remark, or something said in a joking fashion. All the apologies in the world are not enough, and the left is not happy until they get their pound of flesh by destroying the hapless individual who was foolish enough to incur their ire. This is nothing more than fighting the libs on their own terms with their own weapons, and they hate it when we fight back effectively.
They could have done something positive. They still could. Maybe OL should feature some EBRs in the 6.8spc or 6.5 grendal on some deer hunt where they are allowed.
Funny as Indiana rule changes would allow for the 458socom in deer hunting as per the cartridge specs.
Remington could cut off ammo and long arm sales to CA LEO. Maybe Remington could rally more of the industry for this as well. Ronny B I think is almost alone with his 50 cutoff to CA LEO.
Seems so much is possible if we push the right buttons.
Funny as Indiana rule changes would allow for the 458socom in deer hunting as per the cartridge specs.
Remington could cut off ammo and long arm sales to CA LEO. Maybe Remington could rally more of the industry for this as well. Ronny B I think is almost alone with his 50 cutoff to CA LEO.
Seems so much is possible if we push the right buttons.
Master Blaster
Member
A couple of years ago when the last AWB was rearing its ugly head I went on a personal campaign at my gun club to educate my fellow shooters. I put up copies of the proposed ban, and of Ted Kennedy's speach asking to outlaw all rifle cartidges begining with the
"Armour piercing .30-.30 which can penetrate a policemans vest and is sold in Hardware stores to anyone"
I had a gent ask me why I thought civilians needed assault rifles and machineguns, and tell me that he supported the AWB.
He was telling me this while we were standing on the line at the .22lr rifle range at Delco. In his hands was a tricked out 10/22 that he uses for silouhette competition
I had to point out to him the specific language in the proposed renewal of the AWB that banned 10/22 carbines because they can take a +10 round magazine.
I think he saw the light.
"Armour piercing .30-.30 which can penetrate a policemans vest and is sold in Hardware stores to anyone"
I had a gent ask me why I thought civilians needed assault rifles and machineguns, and tell me that he supported the AWB.
He was telling me this while we were standing on the line at the .22lr rifle range at Delco. In his hands was a tricked out 10/22 that he uses for silouhette competition
I had to point out to him the specific language in the proposed renewal of the AWB that banned 10/22 carbines because they can take a +10 round magazine.
I think he saw the light.
At times like this, there are several traps we would be well advised to stay clear of.
One is the "Everyone's entitled to his own opinion..." trap. It starts out "Everyone's entitled to his own opinion..." and finishes up with "unless that opinion is different than mine..." It's all too easy to paint a person with the broadest brush possible. Some people just don't think there's a place in the civilian world for "military-style" firearms... they don't see the logic that says "Well, gee... my Mauser bolt action was the height of military weaponry in it's day..."
Another trap is the "You're either with us or against us..." trap. We all have different priorities in life, and you can't expect a total stranger to have the exact same beliefs that you have. It just may be possible, through the effort of experience and familiarization, to change someone's opinion on something. While I wouldn't waste the time on a "Sarah Brady", I would suggest exposing a shooter to a new platform, in hopes that that shooter would gain a new understanding and become a proponent, instead of an enemy (especially if he's an influential writer). The only other choice is to exclude that person from your activities totally. By excluding people that have a different opinion, you're making enemies at a time when allies are much more important.
My main fear is that public opinion can be swayed by such a loud outcry from such an evident minority. How many soccer moms do you suppose could be marshalled to mount a vociferous e-mail campaign against us? It's true that this one incident shows us the potential power of "The Internet". We must be ever watchful, lest that power be used against us...
One is the "Everyone's entitled to his own opinion..." trap. It starts out "Everyone's entitled to his own opinion..." and finishes up with "unless that opinion is different than mine..." It's all too easy to paint a person with the broadest brush possible. Some people just don't think there's a place in the civilian world for "military-style" firearms... they don't see the logic that says "Well, gee... my Mauser bolt action was the height of military weaponry in it's day..."
Another trap is the "You're either with us or against us..." trap. We all have different priorities in life, and you can't expect a total stranger to have the exact same beliefs that you have. It just may be possible, through the effort of experience and familiarization, to change someone's opinion on something. While I wouldn't waste the time on a "Sarah Brady", I would suggest exposing a shooter to a new platform, in hopes that that shooter would gain a new understanding and become a proponent, instead of an enemy (especially if he's an influential writer). The only other choice is to exclude that person from your activities totally. By excluding people that have a different opinion, you're making enemies at a time when allies are much more important.
My main fear is that public opinion can be swayed by such a loud outcry from such an evident minority. How many soccer moms do you suppose could be marshalled to mount a vociferous e-mail campaign against us? It's true that this one incident shows us the potential power of "The Internet". We must be ever watchful, lest that power be used against us...
I' suprised I haven't seen this so far so I'll post it. I cannot take credit saw it elsewhere.
With apoligies to Pastor Martin Niemöller
They came first for the Full Autos,
and I didn't speak up because I didn't have any Full Autos.
Then they came for the Semi Autos,
and I didn't speak up because I didn't have any Semi Autos.
Then they came for the High Capacity Magazines,
and I didn't speak up because I didn't have any High Caps.
Then they came for the Handguns,
and I didn't speak up because I was a didn't have any HandGuns.
Then they came for my Shotgun,
and by that time there were no other Gun Owners to speak up.
I used a Stockmaker (once) who was for banning .50s and would not work on any military type firearms. But oh how he loved his shotgun. Don't remember the brand but I do remember it was over 30K
NukemJim
With apoligies to Pastor Martin Niemöller
They came first for the Full Autos,
and I didn't speak up because I didn't have any Full Autos.
Then they came for the Semi Autos,
and I didn't speak up because I didn't have any Semi Autos.
Then they came for the High Capacity Magazines,
and I didn't speak up because I didn't have any High Caps.
Then they came for the Handguns,
and I didn't speak up because I was a didn't have any HandGuns.
Then they came for my Shotgun,
and by that time there were no other Gun Owners to speak up.
I used a Stockmaker (once) who was for banning .50s and would not work on any military type firearms. But oh how he loved his shotgun. Don't remember the brand but I do remember it was over 30K
NukemJim
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Mongo the Mutterer
Member
Cee Tee, everyone is entitled to his own opinion, and to state it in anyway he or she wants. I don't care if Mr. Zumbo doesn't like EBRs. That is his business. It is his opinion, and I would not like to try and change it.
But when a supposed "leader" in our community calls us "Terrorists" and fails to apologize for his remarks when he has a chance, he is an elitist scumbag and deserves every flush of the toilet he is receiving.
And don't think he did not call us Terrorists. He did.
But when a supposed "leader" in our community calls us "Terrorists" and fails to apologize for his remarks when he has a chance, he is an elitist scumbag and deserves every flush of the toilet he is receiving.
And don't think he did not call us Terrorists. He did.
All too true, MtM. And personally, I'm thoroughly gratified that the "whirlwind" is sucking right out of his pocketbook. It's unlikely that he would consider any other kind of censure significant. When one of my kids does something bad, though, they don't just get punished. They're made to see just why it is that what they did is wrong, and they're given the opportunity to make amends. That, in addition to any punishment meted out.
I think that Zumbo (and McRae, and any others who agree with him) should be made to see just why it is that that kind of attitude is the wrong way to think. They should be given the chance to understand, and make amends. And not just with a phony "But I'm a life Member of the NRA" suck-up apology, either. They should be allowed the chance to do serious penance, in the form of... oh, I don't know. Spearheading a nation-wide letter writing campaign in support of RKBA, maybe. Joining the RWVA Appleseed program as instructor. Something. If they choose to not avail themselves of the opportunity to earn their good name back then they deserve any vitriol they receive.
That's just how I feel, anyway.
Intune
Member
Jim Shepherd-
) I don't appreciate the proverbial knife in the back from within the fold of gun owners, particularly when it is twisted with such malicious intent. Should I passively await the next cruel cut delivered when the privileged, windblown, misunderstood, gungrabber-fodder-provider’s feet aren’t quite as tired? Perhaps delivered during an important NRA vote? No, I won’t and neither should any other law-abiding American gun owner. He is clearly an enemy of the 2nd. Feinstein and her ilk welcome the Zumbos of the world with open arms. He epitomizes their “reasonable” agenda. No second chances for the ousted sheep in wolf’s clothing for he possesses the insidious ability to destroy the pack incrementally from within. No anger here, just the facts as I see them.
Mr. Sheherd doesn't get it either. I am not angry and I don't own a "black rifle." (I prefer the cheap wood and shoddy parkerizing on my SAR1
) I don't appreciate the proverbial knife in the back from within the fold of gun owners, particularly when it is twisted with such malicious intent. Should I passively await the next cruel cut delivered when the privileged, windblown, misunderstood, gungrabber-fodder-provider’s feet aren’t quite as tired? Perhaps delivered during an important NRA vote? No, I won’t and neither should any other law-abiding American gun owner. He is clearly an enemy of the 2nd. Feinstein and her ilk welcome the Zumbos of the world with open arms. He epitomizes their “reasonable” agenda. No second chances for the ousted sheep in wolf’s clothing for he possesses the insidious ability to destroy the pack incrementally from within. No anger here, just the facts as I see them.Mongo the Mutterer
Member
Not to pile on, but
Since the Editor of Outdoor Life brought down the Zumbo blogs, here is his page on the website...
http://www.outdoorlife.com//outdoor/columnists/article/0,19912,1591915,00.html
He is accepting comments...
Since the Editor of Outdoor Life brought down the Zumbo blogs, here is his page on the website...
http://www.outdoorlife.com//outdoor/columnists/article/0,19912,1591915,00.html
He is accepting comments...
I apologize for my earlier post in which I called for Mr. Zumbo to be removed from the NRA Board of Directors. Mr. Zumbo in not on the NRA Board of Directors. I assumed he was based on previous posts: stupid me. I could not find verification early this morning, but I just found a list in my August American Rifleman magazine. I apologize. My original post has been edited, and I will point out my error in another thread started because of that post. Once again, I apologize.
Mongo the Mutterer
Member
BSF, no problem.
Welcome to The High Road
Welcome to The High Road
Cosmoline
Member
Art's point is probably the most important and interesting one to come out of this brewhaha. The internet has overtaken the glossy mags in the world of firearms. As to what impact this will have on politics, it's too early to say. But it will certainly make it more difficult for the Safari Club set to dictate policy from on high.
emitt1
Member
Mongo, thanks for the link. Just left my comments and noticed Sarah Brady wrote to thank Outdoor Life for standing by Zumbo, and thanked Zumbo for his part in fighting our rights. Seems we need to blast OL a bit more.
Deanimator
Member
My comment on Outdoor Life's website:
At 1:34 PM, 2/21/2007, Deanimator said:
Mr. Zumbo's recent comments bring to mind the term "Judenrat". They were the "Jewish Police" employed by the SS to round up other Jews for transport to the death camps. Like them, Mr. Zumbo seeks to throw his fellows under the bus to buy himself respite before he himself becomes a victim, a delusion in both cases. Simply despicable.
At 1:34 PM, 2/21/2007, Deanimator said:
Mr. Zumbo's recent comments bring to mind the term "Judenrat". They were the "Jewish Police" employed by the SS to round up other Jews for transport to the death camps. Like them, Mr. Zumbo seeks to throw his fellows under the bus to buy himself respite before he himself becomes a victim, a delusion in both cases. Simply despicable.
Selfdfenz
Member
Saw that and posted a few words of my own. I'm sure OL and corporate interests that used to pick up his hunting and airline tab are doing job interviews. There will be litmus tests!
I was amazed to see this man is actually getting words of support. I assume Sarah Brady and his family have been made aware of the website.
So much for his "expert opinion".
Best
S-
I was amazed to see this man is actually getting words of support. I assume Sarah Brady and his family have been made aware of the website.
So much for his "expert opinion".
Best
S-
Robo_Railer
Member
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2006
- Messages
- 271
True, but giving the Brady Bunch an opportunity to say "Well, see, this gunwriter says you people don't need those bad guns" is just the old "aid and comfort to the enemy" thing. The writer probably didn't see it as "divide and conquer," but the Antis do. "So, you gave up those scary 'terrorist rifles' and nothing bad happened. We have supermarkets, so you don't need to hunt for food, so just hand over that scary shotgun before you get an uncontrollable urge to saw off its barrel."
Absurd? Yes, they are.
NukemJim has it right. I was going looking for that to quote it, but Jim paraphrased it wonderfully.
That camel is going to keep sticking its nose into the tent . . .
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
In a letter for the hard copy issue of Outdoor Life, I pointed out that during the implosion of the USSR, Spetsnaz troops were going house to house in one of the Baltic states, taking any individual's firearms.
An ABC TV film clip showed some of these "deadly weapons": Browning-appearing O/U shotguns, and Olympic-style free rifles, apparently 22-caliber.
When "they" come for guns, there's no difference in the governmental mind between a Perazzi and a home-defense 870. Between a .22 plinker and a scoped, high-$$$ custom scope-equipped "sniper" rifle that has only been used on deer hunts.
I figured that made the point fairly well...
"Coming for guns" doesn't have to mean door to door collection. Just look at California's laws on semi-automatics.
For those who say this wasn't that big a deal from a politician's viewpoint, well, we gotta start somewhere, and this all seems like it was a danged good beginning. If you follow the industry news in the media bidness, you'll find that blogs have already made an impact on TV watching and newspaper buying. "Just folks" like us are becoming more important than we were before.
Instant communication empowers the little guy far more than the big guy. The big guy can no longer control what we know. That's why Congress is being lobbied to establish controls over the Internet.
Art
An ABC TV film clip showed some of these "deadly weapons": Browning-appearing O/U shotguns, and Olympic-style free rifles, apparently 22-caliber.
When "they" come for guns, there's no difference in the governmental mind between a Perazzi and a home-defense 870. Between a .22 plinker and a scoped, high-$$$ custom scope-equipped "sniper" rifle that has only been used on deer hunts.
I figured that made the point fairly well...
"Coming for guns" doesn't have to mean door to door collection. Just look at California's laws on semi-automatics.
For those who say this wasn't that big a deal from a politician's viewpoint, well, we gotta start somewhere, and this all seems like it was a danged good beginning. If you follow the industry news in the media bidness, you'll find that blogs have already made an impact on TV watching and newspaper buying. "Just folks" like us are becoming more important than we were before.
Instant communication empowers the little guy far more than the big guy. The big guy can no longer control what we know. That's why Congress is being lobbied to establish controls over the Internet.
Art
Selfdfenz
Member
+1
S-
S-
ctdonath
Member
Yeah.
60-80,000 people were outraged - in one weekend flat.
Zumbo posted his drivel on Friday.
By Sunday he had posted his "apology", prompted by the flaming by some 3,000 posters.
By Monday - a federal holiday - Outdoor Life had pulled Zumbo's blogs, Remington had officially severed ties, Gerber officially expressed their dismay, and who knows what other behind-the-scenes withdraws of sponsorship and other severing of ties had occurred.
By Wednesday, TheHighRoad.org alone had its primary thread extend to an astounding 779 posts (not including related threads).
Who knows how many Outdoor Life cancellations are still enroute thru the mail.
All because of one 19-sentence posting on a relatively obscure (by MSM standards) website by a writer much/most of the outraged audience had not heard of or cared about.
That a media technology can move 0.1% of all gun owners to outrage and action in a mere weekend is huge.
The NRA can't motivate people that fast, and it's a professional lobby group second only to the AARP.
What comes next?
Those 80,000 outraged gunowners each tell 10 friends who care.
Outdoor Life magazine suddenly realizes that EBR hunting is a viable market after all.
Politicians take note that an overlooked minority can get a move on FAST.
All because one old writer with sore feet wrote a few ill-chosen sentences last Friday.
And today is merely Wednesday.
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