Night vision and IR(Thermal Imaging) scopes?

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Koontzy

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Dec 19, 2007
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Is there anyone that sells these that isnt in the high thousands range? and as a civilian (I am a former Marine) whats the legalities of buying one? I would like a scope to be mounted ot a AK or maybe a AR-15 or M-16. Gonna use it for nighttime coyote hunting. Can a civilian own one?


if so wheres good places ot look at buying one?


THanks
 
Why would it be illegal?? You will have a lot harder time getting a M-16 than a scope, either type.

Try using google to search for rifle scopes, you will come up with a lot of sellers out there. Use the sites search to look for Thermal.

I tried it here and came up with dozens of options.

http://www.swfa.com
 
http://www.kalinkaoptics.com/detail.aspx?ID=146

Never used it, but pretty much exactly what you are looking for. Remember with optics you get what you pay for. Russian optics tend to be "functional" for the cost, don't expect anything amazing, but it will probably work.

oh yeah, +1 on what everyone else said. No legal problems at all. You can pretty much put anything you want on your gun that doesn't make it full auto, launch grenades, silences etc..... at least not without "permission"!
 
dude, walmart sells NV. the only thing potentially illegal about it is hunting with NV is illegal in many states.
 
Our Gen 2 D-300 is a great place to start or the D-740 Gen 4x System. The Gen 2 systems are the best systems for the money. The Gen 1 systems lack the resolution and brightness for any serious varmint elimination. Hope this helps.

Vic

D-300 1x Monocular
D300GenMonocularDescriptionMAINPic.jpg
D300GenMonocularDescriptionPicA.jpg
D-300100mTorch.jpg

D-740 4X Gen 2 Rifle Scope
Gen2760.jpg
 
First off, Semper Fi (former Marine myself). Secondly, you can get night vision for under $200 bucks, but it's complete crap Gen 1 stuff. Do a Google search for ATN Night Vision and check out their products. The cheapest ones really do suck, I owned one when I was younger. You're not gonna get performance equal to 7B's or 14B's without going well over a grand for it.
 
I'd say figure out what you want and look for a deal. I've owned a set of PVS-7B's and a PVS-14; both were bought at below market and I didn't lose any money when I resold them. Hell, one of them was bought here. ;)

I'd say Gen3 or better is what you're looking for. Personally I like the Elcan thermal optics out now, but $11,000 is a bit much for what really just amounts to a toy...
 
#2
32winspl
Senior Member

This is a review of a generation 1 ATN night-vision scope that I own.

Join Date: 11-04-07
Location: Wausau, Wi.
Posts: 319 I have an ATN (brand) Aries 390 Paladin series 1st generation night-vision rifle scope with a 450miliwatt infra-red illuminator. I have never hunted with it and don't even know if it is legal to do so in this State. The rulebook seems a bit ambiguous.
That aside, I've played with the scope quite a bit, mostly off my rifle and handheld. First, you need to know that I have no other experience with night-vision devices of whatever developmental Generations. This is, if I've been told correctly, a Russian built unit incorporating some US technology. Overall, I'm VERY impressed with it.
About the scope. The objective lens is a touch under 3" and has a spring loaded lenscap with a "pinhole" in it, so it can be sighted in on a cloudy day. I think it's a 2 1/2 power. It has a focus ring, and can be focused from about 15' to infinity. The scope and illuminator use (one each) a standard 3 volt lithium battery.
The controls on the scope include a push-button on/off, and a rotary button that turns the reticle (red reticle on a green screen) on or off, and varies the reticle intensity. On the other side of the scope are 2 cap-covered adjustments for windage and elevation.
The IR illuminator is detachable, and mounts on top of the scope via a single knurled thumbscrew. There are several adjustments on the IR. The beam is fucusable, like a mini-maglite flashlight, from spot to flood. The intensity of the light is click-adjustable from pretty bright to really bright. It is also capable of being adjusted (windage and elev) to coincide with the reticle at a preset range.
Now, the stuff you really want to know... how it works.
Ok, I have pretty good night vision. The scope, by itself, allows me to see much better, and I don't have to "look away" 15 degrees to see what I'm looking at. I know that what I'm saying is completely subjective, and unquantifiable. Sorry about that. Basicly this. If it's too dark for you to see a racoon at all, this scope isn't going to make it too much more visible... until you turn on the IR. The IR really changes things! The IR really lets you see pretty much everything, even in TOTAL darkness. You won't see in color mind you. It's like watching black and white television, only in shades of green. But you're gonna see it! With this rig, I've quite clearly seen the bodies of deer moving around at over 100 yards in near pitch darkness. I think you'd be able to see their eyes at nearly any distance. With the reticle turned on at it's lowest setting, and the IR on, I believe I'd easily be able to hit a beer can at 75 yds. or more.
Passive versus active;
I'd never thought about it until I started to play with this rig, but, clearly, there are plenty of critters out there that "see" infrared light. I turned on the scope (only) and walked away. I turned around to look where I'd set it down and couldn't see it. Then I turned on the IR, walked away 50 yards and turned back to it. I could see a very faint red dot. I covered my eyes as I walked back to it because I don't know if a focused beam of IR is bad for my eyes. Having used the combo to spot animals at night, I know that Eagles, Owls, and Deer have all been very interested in the IR device. I can't say for sure if they were zeroed in on the IR or if they were looking directly at me to determine what I was doing moving around in the dark. I did try another test though. I took the scope and my TV remote down to the basement at night (no lights or windows). Scope on and IR off, I couldn't see a thing. While looking through the scope and pressing the volume or channel buttons, I could see a little. Turning on the IR device, I could see as though in green daylight. If you were to ever be out in the woods with an IR on, your IR would show up like brilliant green road flare to anyone else with a night vision device.
Mounting the scope;
This is a pretty big, heavy, device. The entire length of the scope including eyecup is about 14". Total height including top-mounted IR is about 6" from the top of the IR to the buttom of the integral (standard 7/8" Weaver style) base. The whole thing weighs around 2 lbs, maybe a touch more. The only real downside to this rig is that you can forget getting a good "cheek-weld" to your rifle stock. It's more like a "Jaw-weld". The scope sits really high. The centerline of this scope is going to sit approximately 3 1/4 to 3 1/2" above bore centerline. You can get used to it, but it's not a "natural" hold.
I bought this from the ATN website about 3 years ago. Total price was $525 and included a weather/water tight pelican case (GOOD stuff), 2 batteries, The scope, built-in mount, infra-red illuminator, adjustment wrenches and allen wrenches. I thought then, and still do, that I got a helluva good deal.
Again, I have no idea how much better a gen ll or gen lll scope would be. But I'm still WOWed by how well this scope works with the IR unit provided. If your rifle will accept an aftermarket adjustable cheekpiece, or you can get used to a jaw-weld, this rig should surely solve your dead-of-night critter problems.
Oh, a couple more things. Both the scope and IR have a tiny "power on" light. They are really bright. 2 little pieces of electrical tape will take care of them. Also, I've probably used both the scope and IR device well in excess of 12 hours, and am still on the original batteries.
If you have more specific questions, click on my username and email me.
 
As for legal issues, it depends where you live and where you hunt. You can't mount a night vision scope on a rifle in California, so check the state laws.

Also, night hunting is illegal in some states, and carrying a rifle afield with a night scope might get you nailed for hunting without a license, out of season, and at night, even if you weren't really doing any of that.

Check your local laws first.

I live in Arizona now, and I think the laws here require that you own at least one rifle with night vision, and carry it with you any time you are out of doors at night. They let you off with a warning the first time.

;)

-J.
 
Eagles, Owls, and Deer have all been very interested in the IR device. I can't say for sure if they were zeroed in on the IR or if they were looking directly at me to determine what I was doing moving around in the dark.

Don't know about birds, but I'm pretty sure that most mammals besides us and monkeys have trouble seeing down into the red end of the spectrum. I don't think they can see red lights, let alone infrared lights. They can see at much lower light levels, since most have a nicely reflective membrane behind their retinas (which we've all seen at night with deer on the side of the road) and have eyes generally tuned to get along in very low light.

-J.
 
The way I read Calif law is that you can't use IR or other ACTIVE NV as they have antiquated "sniper scope" mentality from poachers usuing WW2 M-3 setups. I keep my M-76 .308 Yugo that has the factory Warsaw Pact NV set up (giant IR spotlight) in Oregon because of this.
I have a Yukon Sibir Gen. 1 on my 1100 Remington 12 ga. and it works well around a ranch to 50 yards, and that all you need on a SG! It has held up well to a few hundred buck and slug rounds and 3 years of use a couple nights a month.
I have an ANPVS-2 Gen 1 mounted on my early M-1a with a bipod, it is reconditioned Israeli issue and it actually is the best Gen 1 scope goingfor clarity. I have an Infra filter for a Surefire 225 lumin flashlight and you can see very well to 200 meters or so with it turned on (just don't hunt with it in Ca.!) .
I have an ANPVS-4 "hyper mini" Gen 2 on an old SP1 AR and it works pretty well as could be expected. I paid $1500 for it , once again Israeli reconditioned surplus.
I won't be spending any more on anything better as the price goes up from there pretty fierce! Although I really like the looks of the D- 300 scope shown above!
 
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