...no guns in schools, period.

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It is legal in VA and WV, but is almost universally against school policy.
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That is partially true. In Virginia you can legally carry on a college or university campus, except for the University of Virginia.

You can not carry in the gun-free zones in and around elementary, middle or high schools. If you have a CHP you can carry on school property, but you must remain inside your vehicle. This allows CHP holders to pick-up and drop-off students without breaking the law while in the gun-free zone.

VT policy prohibits carry, but it is policy rather than law. If you are visiting the campus and caught carrying you would, at worst, face trespass charges rather than a firearm offense. Students, faculty and employees would be discharged or expelled if caught with a firearm, per VT policy.

My daughter goes to VT and I carry concealed when visiting there. She however can not as she won't risk being expelled.
 
You can not carry in the gun-free zones in and around elementary, middle or high schools.
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True, of course. I thought we were talking about colleges and universities.

David
 
You need to place the comments by Wayne LaPierre in context. This speech was delivered at the national meeting in Denver CO on May 1, 1999. You will recall the the Columbine tragedy occurred on April 20, 1999. There was talk of having the meeting canceled or moved from Denver at the last minute. The "schools" he is referring to are not colleges and universities; they are elementary, middle and high schools. Current law forbids any person under 21 from carrying a firearm concealed. Most "kids" are under 21 in high school, and the few that might not be could be handled on a case by case basis. I doubt Wayne LaPierre was referring to teachers or administrators.

So, I have no problem with the NRA on this issue. The DATES are most important in this case as far as condemning the NRA.
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Once again, the defenders of the NRA get it wrong. Immediately following the Columbine incident is when Wayne, et. al. should have been screaming about arming teachers, not bowing to public opinion.

Give me a break...
 
In 1999, the NRA was reeling from the aftermath of Columbine.

They really weren't in any position to say anything else, given the zietgeist of the time, without shooting themselves in the foot.

If the people aren't ready to hear your message, sometimes the right play is to **** until they're more ready, especially if you have other things to say they will listen to.

These days, post 9/11, post Katrina, post occassional jihaddi induced shooting/sidewalk driving, people are more ready to listen.


Context isn't everything, but it sure counts for a whole lot.
 
30 CAL SLOB - "j warren cassidy was just as bad."

Nope, Cassidy was much worse. I had a fair amount to do with him in 1982, when we in Calif. were fighting to stop "PROP. 15," which the radical left Democrats created and were trying to pass. That initiative would have EVENTUALLY banned all handguns in Calif., and then all long guns.

We won, but Cassidy, who was Exec. V.P. of NRA, a smarmy Boston lawyer, had to be dragged kicking and screaming into the fight.

Thankfully, Harlan Carter and Neal Knox, helped overcome Cassidy's objections to use the NRA to fight that Marxist Socialist plan to completely disarm the worker peasants (not the criminals, of course) of Calif.

FWIW.

L.W.
 
If the people aren't ready to hear your message, sometimes the right play is to **** until they're more ready, especially if you have other things to say they will listen to.
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Then he should have done just that instead of giving more ammunition to the antigun crowd. LaPierre is a Quisling. Some people just aren't willing to see that, yet...
 
CBSBYTE - "When I am right, I am right. The NRA is a deceitful origination, that pretends to back the RKBA, but compromises all the time behind out backs. Wayne is a prime example of this. I don't know why so many people back the NRA."

You're not right, CBSBYTE. You're dead wrong!

Your hatred of the NRA -- as with some others here-- is quite apparent. Sobeit. You have the Right to be wrong, and express it.

But one thing you, and other NRA haters, had better get through your skulls.

The ONLY, I say again, ONLY reason you own a firearm(s) LEGALLY today, is because the NRA and members have been in a never ending fight to protect your Right to own that firearm(s).

I know. I have been a member of the NRA for many, many years. I've been in the "fight" since late 1963 when the leftists said it was my (collectively) fault that J.F. Kennedy was murdered, because I (collectively) owned a gun. I know the "enemy." The enemy is NOT the NRA.

Of course we've lost some of the fights! No one wins them all. But we've won a lot of them, and you, I, and others, still have the Right to own MOST firearms.

No organization is perfect. But as far as I am concerned, any gun owner who actually believes in his/her Right of self defense, etc., who is NOT a member of the NRA, is nothing more than a liability to us. Just another leech, riding on the backs of those who fight for them.

L.W.
 
That mentallity is exactly why we had the Vermont Tech thing happen....exactly. Does anybody here really think that if that wasn't a gun free zone that this would have happened? At the very least it would not have been as bad. Plus, did it being a gun free zone stop HO? NOOOO!
 
Has anybody gone to the NRA website to see if anything CURRENT has been said about VA Tech? Beyond condolences, of course.

If not, bashing is pointless. All it does is encourage the Brady Bunch. Worse, most of the bashing is either out of context or a grandiose "all" sort of foolishness. A denial of what has been done in a positive manner, as though the good things don't matter.

Go back and read Post #11.

Art
 
As a member of the NRA, I can certainly say that he is not representing my views on this deal. I believe we should arm and train willing teachers and make school shootings a thing of the past.
 
[Cite laws where you can legally carry concealed under 21?] I can't and don't feel like looking the stuff up. To my knowledge, there is no state that allows concealed carry of handguns by anyone under 21. Why don't you correct me if I'm wrong.

Wthout the NRA, IF you could own handguns as a civilian, the guns would be registered; there would be a permit per gun that costs money; and the state would be looking at taking them away.

The NRA deals in politics and the ways of politics are not always so apparent to achieve certain goals.

I doubt that having someone with a concealed handgun in the German classroom at VT would have resulted in no additional casualities. There would still have been some, but may be not as many. If I had my gun on me in this case, I most likely would have had 5 rounds to defend myself. I heard that the perp had some 33 round glock magazines. Guess you would just have to make them count!
 
I don't give a damn if it was reeling from Columbine, I have no use for spineless quislings who buckle in the face of adversity in the battle for 2A rights.

This statement is full of so much baloney that flies in the face of everything I believe. To hell with anyone who would make or support such a statement. They can roast in the fires with Zumbo.

If I had an NRA membership, I'd cancel it immediately. I'm off to send a few dollars to the Gunowners of America.

There can never, EVER, at any time, under any circumstances, be a time when a statement like this is allowed to stand.

Any felon caught with a gun for any circumstances goes to jail for 5 years automatically? What in the burning pits of Hades is that about?
 
No organization is perfect. But as far as I am concerned, any gun owner who actually believes in his/her Right of self defense, etc., who is NOT a member of the NRA, is nothing more than a liability to us. Just another leech, riding on the backs of those who fight for them
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I am a member-have to be to be a member of the range locally and because they are doing something, even when it's the wrong thing.

But being a member, I can voice my opinion about the organization just like you can defend it.

For too long, the gun lobby (like the political right) has allowed the gun grabbers (and the political left) to run offense whilst playing defense. It reminds me of the Pittsburgh Steelers...I happen to be a big fan, but too often, they get a lead and then rely on their defense to hold on at all costs.

That strategy is a failing one, even though I love the team, the players and the then coach-nothing was more frustrating than watching them lose a game trying to keep the lead through defense.

Games are won by scoring points, early and often.

I know, someone will say you gotta know when to score points. I think you need to strike while the iron is hot. Current poles show that there is a huge audience paying attention to this one and NOW is when we should be sending the message of peace through superior firepower, not cowardice.

ETA: in case you're wondering, I also spent the day contacting my State Rep regarding a new bill that was introduced in the Alabama Lergislature to require ALL weapons be registered. Wonder if the NRA would help with that:rolleyes:
 
I'm not an NRA member. Those of you who are should be flooding the NRA home office with emails and phone calls. Don't let them get away with this crap.
 
Personally, I think that many feel the NRA can do no right. How would you challenge the Democratic party on their overall stance on gun control? Not voting for them, right? Well, they are still in office and the biggest anti-gun Dems keep getting re-elected over and over again. For me, I need the NRA. They get my cotributions when I am able to make them.
 
Wthout the NRA, IF you could own handguns as a civilian, the guns would be registered; there would be a permit per gun that costs money; and the state would be looking at taking them away.
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I'm not denying the value of the NRA, just the wisdom of retaining LaPierre. Look, the NRA has made many errors in this fight, some of which are a direct knife to the back of gun owners. When Charlton Heston made his statement about no one should have an assault rifle, that was a time when we should have had a revolution within the organization. LaPierre's failure in 1999 to either stand up or be silent is another example of what's wrong with the NRA. The anti's and their toadies in the legislature use stuff like this as tacit approval to move their agenda forward.
 
22rimfire said:
[Cite laws where you can legally carry concealed under 21?] I can't and don't feel like looking the stuff up. To my knowledge, there is no state that allows concealed carry of handguns by anyone under 21. Why don't you correct me if I'm wrong.
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You're out of line.

If you do not KNOW the law, for a fact, you should not just be making stuff up. That's the last thing any of us in the RKBA movement needs right now. "I'll just make stuff up, and force other people to do my homework for me because I'm too dang lazy to look it up for myself, and I'll keep repeating myself, over and over and louder again, whenever anyone points out that I might not know what I'm talking about ...." Oh, that's ugly. That's real ugly.

For those who actually care what the laws are, it's pretty easy to look up.

You can find the law in YOUR state at www.handgunlaw.us or (if it's up) at www.packing.org or at www.lcav.org (they aren't on our side but they have a dang nice interface for that kind of thing).

I suggest that those who are interested in learning the facts and in arguing based upon logic could check the state laws for themselves. Colorado's law has some interesting provisions, for example.

Or you could just keep repeating untruths that you know to be untruths, and then get crabby when other people ask you to verify the accuracy of the untruths you keep repeating.

Oh, concealed carry in public schools, at the elementary through college level? It's legal in Oregon.

pax
 
First, we believe in absolutely gun-free, zero-tolerance, totally safe schools. That means no guns in America's schools, period ... with the rare exception of law enforcement officers or trained security personnel.

We believe America's schools should be as safe as America's airports. You can't talk about, much less take, bombs and guns onto airplanes.Such behavior in our schools should be prosecuted just as certainly as such behavior in our airports is prosecuted.
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This is the part that burns me up. Does he want to prosecute kids just for talking about guns in school?
 
Under 21 Carry IS legal, in some states

Current law forbids any person under 21 from carrying a firearm concealed.
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Not true. It might be true in some states, but not all of them.

To my knowledge, there is no state that allows concealed carry of handguns by anyone under 21. Why don't you correct me if I'm wrong.
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Again, not true.

Indiana allows those 18+ years of age, with a carry permit from anywhere, to carry. Open or concealed.


Immediately following the Columbine incident is when Wayne, et. al. should have been screaming about arming teachers, not bowing to public opinion.
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Now that one is TRUE!

Alternately, Mr. LaPierre could have simply expressed condolences of that horrible incident (Columbine), and got on with the primary business of the annual meeting. Current affairs could have been dealt with later.
 
I think that many recent events have caused people to rethink their stand on creating these 'defenseless vicitm' ghettos.

Let's wait and see what now comes out of the NRA.
 
Well, things have certainly changed since 1999. Let's see what they do now.

In the meantime, I would strongly suggest not waiting for the NRA to do jack squat for you. We need to do it ourselves, grassroots style.

Utah allows CCW in schools and universities. If we can do it, so can your state.

Contact your reps, and demand to know why Utah loves their children more than your state does. Demand CCW be allowed in school. Now is the time.
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+1, and +2, 3 and 4 while I'm at it!

Times have changes since 1999....

Grassroots *is* the way to go! I'm not bashing the NRA (I'm a member), but ya can't just pay your dues and expect them to do EVERYTHING for ya...

I've written my state Rep and Senator already, pointed to Utah as an example, and gotten back a short but sweet reply from the Rep: "_____, I agree with you!"
 
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