No License refund if Unsuccesful for draw in Arizona?

[bighorn]

Hi all!
Newbie here... Ran across this site while trying to find info. about AZ rule of not refunding your license fee if you don't draw a tag.
I moved here about 5 years ago and haven't hunted since moving here due to lack of funds, nobody to hunt with, and too much work. I finally talk my buddy from Texas into putting in with me on Mule deer hunt this spring (AZ has some pretty decent muleys in some spots) and find out you must purchase a hunting license and the big game tag... No big deal... But if you don't draw... They only refund the tag fee (less a modest proccessing fee). The odds of drawing a decent area is about or less than 10% (not very good)It is not an option to keep your license if you are going to still hunt. In my case and my out of state friend, we would probably not need the license if we did not draw a tag. The out of state license is over $150 (that they keep). Am I the only one that thinks this is morally and ethically wrong?
I have hunted in Nevada, Oregon, Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, & Utah...And have never heard of this. Is AZ the only state that does this? Is this thier way of limiting the amount of applications they get? Or just a huge money grab for them (Millions)?
I can't believe this hasn't been challenged in the courts (maybe it has but can't find much info.) A state legislator tried last year to add a bill to change this policy, but game & fish fought it and won.
This also seems like a slam dunk for a class action suit.
Anybody out there know the history or if there is anyone fighting this?
Angry in AZ
B DUB

 

[sumpnz]

bighorn - Welcome to THR! You'll find lots of friendly and knowledgeable folks here.

I can't say I'm a huge fan of the policy, but if you don't like it that much, don't hunt here. Vote with your wallet.

Used to be you could designate to only get a license if you were successful in the draw. If you were unsuccessful and chose that option you did not get any bonus points for the next year. No more.

At least from a resident fee standpoint it's not such a bad deal though. With the license you can hunt small game like rabbits and squirrels, plus birds like dove and quail.

I doubt this issue would gain much if any traction in the courts. It's not like there's any constitutional protection for hunting. States pretty much have carte blanch to set their own rules for hunting.

 

[EricTheBarbarian]

It's not like there's any constitutional protection for hunting

What do you mean. I hear people say all the time that the second amendment is about hunting. The right to keep your tags and hunt

 

[lawson]

you get your tag fee back if you don't get drawn, but you have to have the liscence before you can even put in.

i get the hunt/fish combo, saves money over buying both and includes the trout stamp. i do a lot of fishing.

if you don't get drawn for big game, you still have a year of rabbit and coyote, fall quail & dove, etc.

increase your odds by taking up muzzleloading or archery.

 

[bighorn]

That is the whole point!
I probably wouldn't go out coyote, squirrel, or bird hunting, so wouldn't have the need for a licence if I was not drawn. Same goes for my buddy...He's not going to drive 1,000 miles to shoot a squirrel or a dove when he can shoot one in his backyard.
Besides, a morning dove would look funny on the wall next to the 6x6 bull and the bighorn sheep. And it takes about 10,000 of them little suckers to fill the freezer.
Don't get me wrong...I enjoy hunting for being outdoors, the thrill, spotsmanship, etc. as much or more than anyone.
The whole point is we should be given the choice to get our license fee back if not drawn. Hell, I would probably donate it back for wildlife management if it came down to it. But we are not given that choice. Nobody can tell me the reasoning behind this...Other than they want the money. Hell I need money too, but I don't go out and rob a bank.
This whole thing just seems so ethicaly wrong to me.
B DUB

 

['Card]

Am I the only one that thinks this is morally and ethically wrong?

No. Maybe I'd feel differently if I'd grown up in that area and it had always been that way, but looking at it from the other side of the continent, it seems pretty offensive to me too.

 

[Bwana John]

I dont have any problem with it, but I hunt

(And I chose zones with MUCH better than 10% odds, you will find many good cow elk tags with 50% odds, very good mule deer zones with 30% odds, and whitetail(Cous)with 75% odds)

Every once in a while I put in for N. Kaibab Muley, but I do not expect to get drawn for it, I make up for it with a second choise zone with very good odds.

 

[scout26]

WOW, Illinois DNR specifically states on their website for Non-residents NOT to purchase a licence/stamps until after they've been notified that have been drawn for a deer tag.

 

[MudPuppy]

You're right to be upset--that's a crock.

 

[bighorn]

WOW, Illinois DNR specifically states on their website for Non-residents NOT to purchase a licence/stamps until after they've been notified that have been drawn for a deer tag.

Yea that's how most states are... But here you either have to purchase a license before you apply for your tag or with the application of the tag. In the other states that have you buy your license with you application...You are given the option of a license refund if you do not draw. Not here...you are SOL. This really sucks for the non residents...Some say it is to limit the amount of out of state hunters taking all of the tags, but they already limit it to 10% of the available tags. So this would have no impact whatsoever on limiting the tags given to nonresidents. Just millions of dollars in extra revenue for the state.

 

[langenc]

I thought I heard my son say something about CO keeping some/all of the fee.

 

[bighorn]

I thought I heard my son say something about CO keeping some/all of the fee

actually it appears CO. has one of the fairest programs... They only charge a nominal fee for the tag. Your tag is also your hunting license for what you are hunting (Deer, Elk, etc.). If you don't draw a tag they send all your money back less a $3 application fee.