Norinco M14?

[Farnham]

Wish I could find one at that price! GET IT!

Check over at www.battlerifles.com and read some more on the Norincos and Polytechs if you don't believe me. Somebody over there measured a bunch of Chinese receivers and found them to be more dimensionally accurate to the original design drawings than most of the SA receivers. IIRC, it's still recommended that the receivers be checked for hardness, they can be properly heat treated if they aren't up to snuff.

S/F

Farnham

 

[Flatfender]

Does no one else have a problem with buying a junk copy of an American battle rifle from the Chinese?

My Polytech is not junk. If I wanted junk I'd go buy a mini-14 - which is a scaled down copy of an american battle rifle. Guess which one?

I have a chinese norinco polytech AK47 copy too. It's a way better than the import junk from europe. I also have a south american FAL copy. That's not junk either.

We all can't afford uber-priced new Springfields or even an orginal M14 like I'm sure you can.

 

[xd45gaper]

no way would i buy that, i would rather save my pennies and buy the orginal springfield model.

i see them at gunshops all the time for less than 2000.00 more like the 1100-1300 range. and you get american made quality instead of a cheap lookalike.

So many US companys are going over seas to have there goods manufactured because its cheap. why would you want to support one more item. espcially a factory that is helping Iran build its Nukes. Just a thought. but im not telling you where to spend your money. but think about your grandkids or children when Iran and China starts shooting Nukes over at us with Norinco products in its missles...

 

[mrmeval]

Would it matter if they shot at us with US made weapons? I want a good rifle. I have a certain amount of dollars. Springfield wants more than I can afford. I will go with what I can buy.

There wouldn't be as many shooters now if not for the inexpensive imports both new and surplus. Those shooters will eventually move up to better guns. I did. I won't sneer at something that helps create more gun owners, especially poor people.

no way would i buy that, i would rather save my pennies and buy the orginal springfield model.

i see them at gunshops all the time for less than 2000.00 more like the 1100-1300 range. and you get american made quality instead of a cheap lookalike.

 

[Draven32]

+1

It seems inconsistent to me too that the kind of man who would want such a rifle as this...would be willing to accept a chinese knockoff.

<shrug>

Please explain how Norinco/Polytech M-14Ses are knockoffs. They are made on the original M-14 production equipment, which we sold to Taiwan, and Taiwan sold it to China several years later with our direct permission. More like, the Springfield Armory versions are a 'knock-off'.

 

[TechBrute]

We all can't afford uber-priced new Springfields or even an orginal M14 like I'm sure you can.

What I can and can't afford is irrelevant to you and this conversation. The conversation is about the Norinco gun. The original poster never asked if he should wait and buy a Springfield. He asked if the Norinco was a good deal. And, if you weren't busy putting words in my mouth, you'd notice that I NEVER recommended Springfield. I've seen some real turds come out of their place lately, and I wouldn't buy one anytime soon.

Of course my response is that it is not a good deal. It would never be a good deal. Any manufacturer that you can't just assume it will work off the rack qualifies as junk is my opinion. 100% of the Norincos that I have personal experience have had serious failures. That is relevant information. It seems that the best thing anyone has to say about them is that they may or may not be servicable.

If I had $350 to spend on a rifle, it wouldn't be on a Norinco. If you are arbitrarily telling yourself that you have $350 to spend on a M14, then you don't have much of a choice, now do you? I don't remember the original poster asking what the best M14 under $400 is.

Edited to add: And Flatfender, I am not going to apologize for having specific standards in firearms that I purchase and recommend, no matter how many "sour grapes" comments I get from people who don't even know me.

 

[longhorngunman]

If it appears to be in decent shape, get the rifle. Still want answers go to the www.battlerifles.com forums, these guys know their M14's and M1's a lot better than some of the responses your getting here. Plus it IS made in China so it probably built better than what is being built here.

 

[Sulaco]

Thanks for the responses guys. I am a long time THR member and was an original member over at TFL back before they closed (and re-opened). I like the community, which is why I posted. I did not expect to start a war of the words and I kind of wish now that the Mods would just close this thread. To those of you who have posted helpful and insightful information, as always, I appreciate it.

 

[hillbilly]

Sulaco, I hope you enjoy your Nornico M14 that you're going to get a great price on.

But I don't think the thread should be closed because of a "war of words."

Just where is this war on this thread?

hillbilly

 

[Spiggy]

you get american made quality instead of a cheap lookalike...

In this day in age, that doesnt mean much anymore... When was the last time you saw a decent US-made DVD player? Car? how about a phone?

It seems that we've been degraded to rely on foreign production so long that the only thing we seem to be good at is making ammo and dumping it on some poor foreign nation that we didnt even know existed.

Needless to say, "Quality" is variable and without relation to what country it's made from

 

[Lambo]

Right now any .308 battlerifle you can buy for $350 is a good deal, even a Cetme. I've always heard of much worse issues with the Springfield varients than the chinese guns. Don't let the fact that their made in China worry you, they're making guns not nuclear-tipped warheads(well those too ). BTW what's the problem with buying chinese guns, that's the free market at work and it's unfortunate that we can't buy new ones now. I'd gladly buy an American M1A if they could compete pricewise, but thanks to over-regulation, taxes, paying obscene employee benefits, they can't compete.

I think it's only Regulations & Taxes:banghead: . Try starting a Business in the U.S. now days. You better like jumping through a thousand Hoops and don't fall on your Ass in doing it!

 

[30Cal]

Please explain how Norinco/Polytech M-14Ses are knockoffs. They are made on the original M-14 production equipment, which we sold to Taiwan, and Taiwan sold it to China several years later with our direct permission. More like, the Springfield Armory versions are a 'knock-off'.

Nope. The H&R tooling is not being used by Norinco/Polytech. Taiwan never collaborated with mainland China. They reverse engineered the rifle in the early 60's from captured USGI weapons, well before the tooling ever left the States. See Emerson's book below.

http://www.imageseek.com/m1a/book.html

Ty

 

[colt.45]

i agree tech

why settle for less, chinese stuff sucks, and do you really want to support sweat shops and child labor seeriously, i have had a very bad experience with every gun, airgun or anything from china. but it has that sweet price, so i guess its a good deal. i wouldnt buy it though

 

[AZ Jeff]

Nope. The H&R tooling is not being used by Norinco/Polytech. Taiwan never collaborated with mainland China. They reverse engineered the rifle in the early 60's from captured USGI weapons, well before the tooling ever left the States. See Emerson's book below.

http://www.imageseek.com/m1a/book.html

Ty

Ty is right about the Red Chinese developing their own tooling for the Norinco M14 copy.

At $350, a Norinco copy of an M14 is a total steal. Even if EVERY PART except the reciever is junk (and no M1A/M14 builder has ever reported the Norinco receivers to be bad), the reciever itself is worth every penny of $350. SA charges a LOT more than that for their receiver!!

If that deal was available to me, I would buy the rifle, have the headspaced checked, and shoot it a while. Then I would have the headspace rechecked (as Norinco bolts are often soft). If the headspace is opening up, some fitting of selected GI parts might be in order.

Even if you had to eventually replace every single part except the reciever with GI pieces, you would be money ahead.

 

[hillbilly]

Sulaco, here is an old thread I posted about hardness testing and headspacing on a Norinco M14 way back when.......

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=88792&highlight=norinco+bolt

My Norinco had been purchased new by a military competition shooter, and stuck back in a locker. It had never been fired when I bought it. In fact, there was no carbon fouling on the oprod or in the oprod channel.

Not long after the headspace check that the thread above details, I upgraded that sucker.


My Norinco cost the following

Rifle $700 (tax included, out the door)
Kreiger barrel off E-bay $220 (including shipping)
Barrel swap at gunsmith $50
New synthetic stock off THR classifieds $40 shipped
Bedding job, relief cuts on synthetic stock $100

Grand total is $1110.

Compare that to the current price of a NIB Springfield Milspec M14.

And with the NIB Springer Milspec, you do not get a Kregier barrel, nor do you get an action bedding job, nor the proper relief cuts to free float the barrel properly.

hillbilly

 

[Spiggy]

do you really want to support sweat shops and child labor

I like that take, It means you want to stop eating Hershey's chocolate and visiting Disney company establishments... Hershey chocolate is picked by child labor in african cocoa farms, and disney(&co) is notoriously famous for abusing overseas labourers... well, any labourers for that matter.

 

[P-32]

If you haven't already bought the Rifle do so now! At $350.00, even if the thing was Junk as others have said, it can be built into a fine shooter.

 

[Sulaco]

I bought it. Here's a pic.

I think the front sight is canted a tad, but I am not positive. I can't get the flash suppressor or the gas block off though. I even tried beating them off with a wood block, some penetrating oil and a mallet. They are on the barrel good and tight. If this thing has been shot 50 times, I would be surprised. The gas system is very clean and the rest of the rifle shows little wear.

I want to get the headspacing checked and then I think I will just shoot it and see how it does.

 

[hillbilly]

The gunsmith who put the Kreiger barrel onto my Norinco M14 had to cut the flash hider nut in half to get the original fake flash hider off.

The nut had been tack welded into place at the factory, apparently.

hillbilly