North Dakotans: Action time again!!!

[Nickotym]

The mutilated form of 1348 is coming for a vote within a short time. I will post results. and play by play of any debate.

 

[Nickotym]

The bill passed 48yeas-46nays!!!

I will put some of the debate up a little later.

Now if only we can improve it in the senate.

 

[Nickotym]

OK, done listening to the debate on 1351 and 1389, both of which passed.

I will be paraphrasing greatly, but here is the substance of what happened during the debate on 1348. My audio feed kept cutting out as well, I will put ellipses where it did that.

Grande: the bill was amended down considerably, it only applies to college apartments and parking areas, does not apply to dorms, sororities and fraternities.

Froseth: not comfortable, not any safer, bring gun on campus not safe. lots of gray areas in current law.
only testimony in support was UND SCCC and 2 other individuals. My comments: WE NEED MORE IN SUPPORT AT SENATE HEARING, ESP IF WE WANT TO TRY TO GET MORE PUBLIC GATHERING RESTRICTIONS REMOVED BY AMENDING THE BILL!!!
Opposition was student organizations, NDSU chief of police, Cass county deputy. He got several emails from ND higher ed, Wahpeton SCS, ND state housing officer association etc. Said it would be hard to manage provisions. stated how some apartments have children, concerned about safety of grandchildren My comments: I am concerned about the safety of my children, that is why I chose to carry concealed. These folks assume that guns and children are a magical combination where the gun will jump out of your holster and attack the innocent children.

 

[Nickotym]

Debate continued:

Dahl: ( think S Dahl my audio cut out) Spoke in favor, colleges can still make rules.

Ruby: CCW are law abiding, the law abiding are harmed most by restrictions when not allowed to carry

Sukut: sound cut out ... wanted to relay some comments from Lynn Aaberg at Williston college she dind't want her kids to have to deal with concealed weapons at school. ... audio cut out... the may cause more problems than it solves

Mueller: wanted to empahsize some points, referenced "West" (sic) Virginia Tech, don't want that to happen here My comments: Then let us protect ourselves. Bill doesn't say what a concealed weapon is, could be a AK47oooh, an evil AK
When I was on campus, pressure, roommate conflicts, alcohol all lead to bad decisions, shouldn't be a gun accessible. Vote no.

 

[Nickotym]

More debate:

Pinkerton: his son attended UND, at that time they had policies where guns could be stored, can't store weapons at present

Grande: My comments: I wish I was in her district, I would vote for her in a heartbeat for this and her other stances on issues dear to me.People with a CCW are law abiding, upstanding citizens, to get a permit she had to get fingerprinted, BCI background check, If yo vote against this you say law abiding shouldn't be able to have guns, but bad guys can. The language the universities had trouble with (she said the univeristies excuses) have been removed. Bill allows you to protect yourself where you are living. As far as hunting, you can store your hunting rifles at your apartment if you have completed hunter's safety. We are talking about the law abiding here. My comments: She was speaking from the heart, you could tell she is passionate about this.

Kaldor: Can I ask Grande a question? Are there any prohibitions for a college to allow guns on campus at present? My comments: I think he meant "can any colleges allow guns at present with current law?"

Grande: they can't allow them now, but even with this new law a college could still make their own policy.

Kaldor: I am unclear. They can allow them now, but they must be in a central repository. I can see the desire for allowing protection, but this is not the right direction.

...audio cut out...

Ammerman (sp): Mentioned the NDSCS at Wahpeton incident this feb where a student had unloaded guns in his car ( rifle and a handgun) Also last november a student was seen walking out of a dorm with a "45" loaded with hollowpoints and one in the chamber. The guy was illegal, but he put a lot of emphasis on being hollowpoints and one in chamber, he should have asked the cop who told him this how he carries. for self defense, hollowpoints and one in chamber is best.

audio kept cutting out....

made a big deal that the student at NDSCS this feb had an AK47, those evil AKs again

Schmidt: made some comments, but my sound cut out... What concerns me is this does not permit any ....My comments: I think he made some question about the pre-emption clause at the end of the bill which is old law.

Boehning: ? for Amerman - Did the students expelled at NDSCS have permits?

Amerman: Not sure, it is under appeal, the guy with the 45 ws allowed back at school, but can't live on campus, the guy in feb is under appeal.

Boehning: lost sound again, the server must have been swamped. Something about In both instances

Amerman: One had a loaded 45, the other had a pistol and rifle.

Boehning: There is no boogeyman in this bill, CCW holders are living in apartments, law enforcement allowed them to get permits. Criminals don't have permits.

No further discussion, vote was held, 48 yeas, 46 nays, HB 1348 passed.

 

[psyopspec]

I also noted that paragraph three has no mention of elementary, middle, or high school which means that we would be able to carry in and around those buildings.

DO NOT CARRY ONTO K-12 SCHOOL GROUNDS. ND law doesn't address it, but federal law makes it a no-no. Get caught doing this, and you will be arrested and prosecuted.

Nickotym, thanks for all the work you put into this. I'm sad to see they gutted the bill.

 

[Nickotym]

I was wrong on what Psyopspec quoted from me in his last post.

DO NOT CARRY ONTO K-12 SCHOOL GROUNDS. ND law doesn't address it, but federal law makes it a no-no. Get caught doing this, and you will be arrested and prosecuted.

You are correct psyopspec, however, if ND law did allow it fed law would too.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/922(q).html

(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects
interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school
zone.
(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—
(i) on private property not part of school grounds;
(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a
political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an
individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify
that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;
(iii) that is—
(I) not loaded; and
(II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;
(iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a school in the school zone;
(v) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in the school zone and the
individual or an employer of the individual;
(vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity; or
(vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while traversing school premises for the purpose of gaining
access to public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school premises is authorized by school
authorities.

For the foreseeable future though, K-12 carry will be a no-no in ND.

 

[Nickotym]

Anyone local that catches newscasts or newspaper articles please pm me on them.

 

[outerlimit]

I think the original version could have passed without being amended if the college campus part was left out. We have a lot of 'it takes a village' nanny state types in higher ed that will always raise a stink about stuff like this.

 

[Nickotym]

Here is the list of how the reps voted on the bill. There were 3 Ds who voted for it and several Rs who voted against it.

SECOND READING OF HOUSE BILL
HB 1348: A BILL for an Act to amend and reenact section 62.1-02-05 of the North Dakota
Century Code, relating to the possession of a firearm at a public gathering.
ROLL CALL
The question being on the final passage of the amended bill, which has been read, and has
committee recommendation of DO PASS, the roll was called and there were 48 YEAS,
46 NAYS, 0 EXCUSED, 0 ABSENT AND NOT VOTING.
YEAS: Bellew; Belter; Berg; Boe; Boehning; Brandenburg; Carlson; Dahl; Damschen; DeKrey;
Delzer; Dosch; Frantsvog; Froelich; Grande; Headland; Karls; Kasper; Kelsch, R.;
Kelsh, J.; Kempenich; Kerzman; Klein; Klemin; Koppelman; Kreidt; Kretschmar;
Meier, L.; Meyer, S.; Nathe; Nelson; Pietsch; Pollert; Porter; Ruby; Rust; Schatz;
Schneider; Skarphol; Svedjan; Thoreson; Uglem; Vigesaa; Wald; Weiler; Weisz;
Wrangham; Speaker Monson
NAYS: Amerman; Boucher; Clark; Conklin; Conrad; Delmore; Drovdal; Ekstrom; Froseth;
Glassheim; Griffin; Gruchalla; Hanson; Hatlestad; Hawken; Heller; Hofstad; Holman;
Hunskor; Johnson, D.; Johnson, N.; Kaldor; Keiser; Kelsh, S.; Kilichowski; Kingsbury;
Kroeber; Martinson; Metcalf; Mock; Mueller; Myxter; Nottestad; Onstad; Pinkerton;
Potter; Schmidt; Sukut; Thorpe; Vig; Wall; Wieland; Williams; Winrich; Wolf; Zaiser

 

[psyopspec]

John Wall was my high school journalism teacher for three years, and Clark Williams was my high school principal during the same time. Upstanding gentlemen for the most part, but too bad they voted the way they did. I'll try to find out why next time I see either of them.

 

[Nickotym]

Glad to have you back on board at least in spirit even though you no longer live in ND, psyopspec.

 

[Nickotym]

start sending this out, adapting by adding your name and town in ND or where you are from if you would visit ND.

Sample email to send to senators on HB 1348:

Dear Senator __________:
The original version of House Bill 1348 would have been a landmark step for North Dakota citizens who wish to legally protect themselves and their families. Currently, the estimated 13,000 to 15,000 North Dakotans that possess a permit to carry a concealed weapon (CCW) cannot utilize said permit in many places. All CCW permit holders would benefit from a uniform standard of CCW eligibility throughout the state. Law abiding citizens would no longer have to forgo the most efficient means of protecting themselves and their families while in a church, college, public park, or other publicly owned property.

Despite this bill clearly being about the rights of CCW permit holders, not just college students, the local media outlets turned this into a debate solely about the rights of CCW permit holders who are college students, and the amended version of HB 1348 reflects that. Eliminated completely from the bill are ANY AND ALL provisions that benefit CCW permit holders who happen to NOT reside in a college apartment in the state of North Dakota. Essentially, members of the Government and Veterans Affairs Committee, due to pressure from people affiliated with North Dakota Higher Education, amended the bill so that it solely affects college students and faculty. While the repealing of the ban on firearms in college apartments (such as the one enacted by UND in the summer of 2008) is certainly a victory, House Bill 1348 no longer affects the majority of CCW permit holders in North Dakota. Moreover, the bill does not at all impact the constituents who worked in conjunction with Representative DeKrey to author the bill prior to the legislative session.
North Dakota gun owners, especially CCW permit holders, are among some of the most law-abiding citizens in all of this great country. Crime rates amongst CCW permit holders nationally are much lower than those of the general public and in many places even lower than crime rates among police officers. Additionally, several members of North Dakota’s legislative body possess CCW permits. I urge you to cease the criminalization of law-abiding North Dakotans that wish to protect themselves and their families.
I would like to ask that you amend HB 1348 to return it to its initial purpose and maintain the protections offered to college students by the amended version passed by the House of Representatives.
Sincerely,

___________________

 

[Nickotym]

I've listed it before in the thread, but contact info for the senators can be found at http://www.legis.nd.gov/assembly/61-2009/senate/members/


thanks all

 

[pesticidal]

Letter sent. Thanks.

 

[NDGeek]

psyopspec

Remind me give you a severe beating next time you come back for not telling me about this thread.

On a side note, Mr. Bulgaria said you wanted him to buy your .50. Sick of it already?

pesticidal

Geez, only in ND. You live just a few houses down from Rep. Grande? I live 3 houses away from her. I sent you a PM.

 

[Nickotym]

HB 1348 has been assigned to the Government and Veterans Affairs Committee in the Senate. They meet Thursday and Friday. The members are:
(R) Dick Dever - Chairman
(R) Dave Oehlke - Vice Chairman
(R) Dwight Cook
(R) Robert M. Horne
(R) Carolyn Nelson

There is no hearing scheduled for 1348 next week. Hopefully I can give more than 1 weeks notice before the hearing.

 

[Nickotym]

Here is the amended text of the bill as we would like to see it:

A BILL for an Act to amend and reenact section 62.1-02-05 of the North Dakota Century Code, relating to the possession of a firearm at a public gathering.
BE IT ENACTED BY THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF NORTH DAKOTA:
SECTION 1. AMENDMENT. Section 62.1-02-05 of the North Dakota Century Code is amended and reenacted as follows:
1. A person who possesses a firearm at a public gathering is guilty of a class B
misdemeanor. For the purpose of this section, "public gathering" includes athletic
or sporting events, schools or school functions, churches or church functions,
political rallies or functions, musical concerts, and individuals in publicly owned
parks where hunting is not allowed by proclamation and publicly owned or
operated buildings.

2. This section does not apply to law enforcement officers; members of the armed
forces of the United States or national guard, organized reserves, state defense
forces, or state guard organizations, when on duty; competitors participating in
organized sport shooting events; gun and antique shows; participants using blank
cartridge firearms at sporting or theatrical events; any firearms carried in a
temporary residence or motor vehicle; students and instructors at hunter safety
classes; or private security personnel while on duty. In addition, a municipal court
judge licensed to practice law in this state, a district court judge, and a retired North
Dakota law enforcement officer are exempt from the prohibition and penalty in
subsection 1 if the individual is otherwise licensed to carry a firearm under section
62.1-04-03 and maintains the same level of firearms proficiency as is required by
the peace officers standards and training board for law enforcement officers. A
local law enforcement agency shall issue a certificate of compliance under this
section to an individual who is proficient.

3. This section does not apply to an individual licensed to carry a firearm under
section 62.1-04-03 unless that individual is on the real property comprising a public
or nonpublic elementary, middle, high school, college or university.

4. This section does not apply to an individual licensed to carry a firearm under section 62.1-04-03 when that individual is on the real property comprising a state or private institution of higher education and that individual is on real property that is a dwelling unit or that unit's related parking and shared space. In addition, this section does not apply to an individual with a valid general game license issued by this state or who has successfully completed hunter education in this state or any other state or province, when that individual is on the real property, comprising a state or private institution of higher education and that individual is on the real property that is a dwelling unit or that unit's related parking and shared space. As used in this subsection, dwelling unit does not include a dormitory.


5. This section does not prevent any political subdivision from enacting an ordinance
which is less restrictive than this section relating to the possession of firearms at a
public gathering. Such an ordinance supersedes this section within the jurisdiction
of the political subdivision.

 

[NDGeek]

Did you submit this to anyone in the Senate as an amendment?

 

[Nickotym]

I submitted it to Lyson and Wanzek who are the sponsors of the bill on the senate side.

Thanks for checking.

 

[Nickotym]

Just saw on the state legislature site that a hearing has been scheduled for 3-12-09 at 2:00 PM in the Government and Veterans Affairs Committee. We need to have as many people as possible there in support of the bill. We need to let them know we want it to be restored to its initial intent with the amendments I presented to Lyson and Wanzek and keep the protections offered by the House amendment. Please get this message to as many people as you can.



Please PM me if you can make it to the hearing. The more the merrier.

 

[Nickotym]

Right now it is scheduled for the Missouri River Room. Let's get enough people there that they have to move it to a bigger room.

 

[Nickotym]

Senate Hearing was today. I will give a synopsis tomorrow.

 

[Nickotym]

Still waiting to hear what the committee decided. Keep emailing the senators on the committee if you haven't yet. Last time a lot of the "testimony" was sent in after the fact by our opposition.

 

[Nickotym]

Just caught the very tail end of the senate floor debate and vote on 1348. We got 23 votews for and 23 votes against. Unfortunately a tie doesn't get a re-vote, it means the bill failed.

I will put up the names of those who voted for it as soon as they are available so folks can send out thank you notes to them for supporting us. I will be sending a Thank you to all the senators and representatives who supported this bill and would ask you to do the same.