NRA Lawsuit against Washington State

[NewWAstate]

cubanitojr and I are i the same position, but great to see progress on this issue. I'll drop DOL a call or swing by tomorrow and get the latest updates. Thanks to all for keeping up the information flow and the hard work lobbying. My two years are up in October '09, hunting season might be a bit tight!
Cheers.

 

[user3214]

How about apply for AFL.
If the AFL is declared unconstitutional by the judge, file a small claims lawsuit against the state for requiring you to pay to exercise you rights. This would be sweet.

 

[waverace]

I just get in , my drivers licence is 2 years and 3 days old , just dont see why I should , Ive waited this long a bit longer wont hurt , lets see what happens on the 29th

 

[user3214]

If the bill passes this week, there is still no guarantee it will pass as a law.
It needs to pass both houses. Right now it's at #1.

(We should know if it passes both houses by mid April)

 

[Gungnir]

Well, at the moment, it still needs another 2 readings in the State Congress, before it can go to the Senate (assuming it follows normal process).

then 3 more readings in the State Senate.

 

[MD_Willington]

Yes for now, the law sucks, but I'm getting while the getting is good.

No, I will NOT drop the subject I will still bug my local .GOV employees, and as the bills have made it almost the distance in the past I think it will take the lawsuit in August to give the whole issue the much deserved mule kick to the gonads and have the law dropped.

But for the time being, I want my stuff, in my house, not my friends house down the street.

 

[cubanitojr]

This decision has created another problem. LPRs under the 2 year mark have to "WAIT", US citizen moving to WA do not, it was made clear in court that LPRs have same gun rights as citizens. This is probably enough grounds to put another complain vs DOL, their customer service told me, nothing has changed, then I asked her why all of a sudden DOL decided start issuing AFLs again?


Quote:

I love this country.

Scarface

 

[cubanitojr]

Thanks !!!

Hey, Willington MD. Good News.

My first WA license was issued 01/08/07, so I do not have to wait, but still other WA LPRs do have to wait, I will still lobby fort them. Anyways thanks guys for all your efforts..

 

[waverace]

Its not over Yet !

Even if you guys apply for the licence now , please remember all that this is still an infringement , if this is somehow allowed to stay it could hold consequences for the future , such as licencing for all , I can see it now , "look how well it works for WA state , look how much revenue they made , why dont we do that ?" citizens would for the most part go to the wall against something like this , we as future citizens should be no different , no rolling over , no giving up .
Rights are rights , laws that are wrong are wrong and must be changed not skirted around .

 

[cdninusa]

I just got back from Sno Co Sherrif's dept. After much help and convincing on my part, I got fingerprinted and submitted my forms. Here's how it went...

me-Hi, I'm here to get my AFL. All my paperwork is complete.
snoco - we don't do those anymore.
me-an injunction was signed yesterday reinstating the AFL.
snoco-we are not aware of that
me-here is the phone number for DOL.
snoco- calls supervisor
snoco- we don['t have a process in place to do that yet
me - here is the phone number for DOL
snoco-come back in 2 weeks
me-I nicely explained that there is a court order that says they have to process me, effective yesterday
snoco-sorry, come back in 2 weeks, or go across the street to Everett PD (I am not in their jurisdiction and already knew how that would go).

I call DOL from the snoco pd waiting area. I must say, eve3ryone I have spoken with at DOL has been AWESOME throughout this whole thing. The person I had been dealing with was out for lunch, so I explained the situation to the lady on the phone that snoco pd wouldn't process me. she said she would have the person I dealt with at DOL call snoco pd when she returned from lunch and inform them. I asked when she would be back and was told within an hour. I left my phone number and asked for a call back.

had time to kill, so I went across the street to Everett PD and as expected, was told that they couldn't process me - I had to get it through snoco pd.

No more than 15 minutes after my call to DOL, I received a callback from the person I spoke to today from DOL saying she called snoco pd and "they are ready for me now". Actually she called me back 3 times - once I was in a garage and had bad reception, the second time I sent it to voicemail because I was at the Everett PD.

I went back to snoco pd and they processed me, although they were confused as to whether I needed to fill out the CPL app in addition to the AFL, which it turns out I did not.

an experience in "pushing chain" but now SnoCo is able and willing to process the AFL's and I'm guessing it helped pave the path for others so it was worth it.

BTW, Everett is still unaware of this process, so if you're going to Everett in the next day or so, I would advise you call DOL and ask them to call Everett for you in advance so you don't have to go through what I went through.

 

[cdninusa]

PS, I know this is an infringement. I had to go through this to get FAA approval for pilot training as well, so I'm used to it by now. That said, I'd rather get it than wait who knows how long for this to get all sorted out. I may ask for a refund of any funds I paid that I shouldn't have been required to pay. I expect that the state will automatically issue a refund if the law/AFL is found to be unconstitutional. They may even go back and provide refunds to everyone that paid for it in the past. I believe that happened once when they overcharged on license plate tab fees but can't recall the exact situation.


PPS, AFL info is back up on the DOL website.
http://dol.wa.gov/business/firearms/faalien.html

 

[MD_Willington]

I suggest everyone here give your local LEA the heads up, I have done this with my Sheriff and he knows the score... The applications are to be accepted and completed now.

King County is dragging their heels too!

The lawyer said to call him if the LEAs do not "Get R Done"...

 

[NewWAstate]

I just talked to the DOL and the nice lady said that I just need a letter from my local consulate (New Zealand) and I can then apply - she was even kind enough to send out an application packet, but I see it is posted here. Will report on how it goes, I intent to go direct to the DOL.

 

[cubanitojr]

Here is how is going for me:

1. Contacted DOL, gave me instructions how to fill out application, told me to complete and include all required documentation (all this is in the application package).
2. Called Redmond Police Dept. They told me, since this process was recently reinstated and to facilitate the process, they wanted to see the "Whole" completed package before I mail it to DOL, then they'll process me and I could mail it to DOL.


I hope this help.

 

[Gungnir]

Maybe it's just me, but does anyone else feel that local LEA's are a little bit jumpy about this being reinstated?

I'll let you guys know how Seattle goes tomorrow, was planning on going today, but, other things intruded again.

 

[Clint C]

Non-United States citizens legally residing in the U.S. should not be able to own guns.

If they want to own guns they should become citizens. It is that simple.

 

[MD_Willington]

Its not that simple.

As green card holders we are under the jurisdiction of the USA, and as such we are considered a US citizen, it says so right in OUR constitution.

Amendment XIV

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

So I guess you better lobby your .gov critters to come up with an amendment that would have them repeal the 14th, but watch out, once they start the ball rolling on the 14th, more would follow.

And I'm due to get naturalized in ~ 17 months...

 

[cubanitojr]

Clint C.

It is VERY difficult to legally reside in USA with a Greencard, we have to undergo deep scrutinity by Homeland security, FBI and ICE approved Doctors. Once you get it, you have to wait 5 years before you can even apply for citizenship. Under the USA constitution Greencard holders enjoy SAME benefits as US citizens with the exeption of voting for the US president.

 

[waverace]

Thanks to the constitution you are entitled to freely speak your oppinion , and we thank you for it , however becoming a citizen is not an overnight process , we must first be green card holders for 3 years before we can apply after that it takes about 6 years at the moment to get to the point where we can take a test that most citizens would fail , then we can be sworn in as citizens . the initial green card application is not a quick process either , in my case due to a mistake by the USCIS it took 6 years .so by the standards that you state I should be disallowed from self defence of myself and my citizen family and restricted in my choice of hobbies and sports for 15 years !! just because I was not born here . like I said you are entitled to your oppinion , thankfully the constitution and the federal law thinks otherwise .

 

[Clint C]

MD I said non-United States citizens legally residing in the U.S. That means NON-United States citizens are not citizens.

For all of you guys with greencards I do thank you for going through the tuff process of getting them.

 

[Clint C]

I mean no disrespect to you all.

Just because I said what I said does not mean that I think you are bad people.

Maybe with what you guys have posted you have gave me alittle bit of a change of heart, and it does suck that good people may not be able to own guns.

 

[MD_Willington]

and I meant no disrespect, I understand where you're coming from too.

I think what natural born citizens need to understand is this, we come from countries where we are never guaranteed any rights like this, so when we get a taste of this we fight to get it back when it is removed.

In the case of the other people I'm in contact with, not only is the State denying the LPR a right, they also deny the right of the spouse, usually a US citizen.

The US citizen literally has to remove any access to the firearms from their spouse.

In that regard they are removing the rights of the natural born citizen and any other US citizen in the household, the State in a way is using this as backdoor gun control.


Many of us LPRs are here, working in industries where what we produce keeps US citizens alive and well, if I was a bad person, I would be able to do bad things on a grand scale, but I'm not a bad person.


Thank you for listening to my rant.. LOL

 

[Gungnir]

Clint C.

I respect your opinion, I have listed a few points, below, that I would appreciate you considering.

As stated by MD_Willington as an LPR we are under jurisdiction of the US. Thus the 14th Amendment applies. There are two Federal rights that LPR's do not have, the right to vote, and the right to run for public office.I pay US taxes (without representation), should my rights be second to a citizens on anything but perhaps deciding the countries direction?

If you erode the 14th to create a second class of citizen, or announce that "this classification" is not covered by the 14th then where does that thinking lead? Logically it leads to elimination of rights from various classifications of people who are decided in DC. What if that classification extends to various socio-economic groups, or racial profiles? Totally legal born in the USA, but now not protected under the 14th.

Police protection, since under the 2A citizens have the RKBA, then if 2A rights don't extend to LPR's, does that mean that in cases of emergency that the Police are required to react more rapidly to an LPR since they have been effectively disarmed?

Spouses of Immigrants, who are US Citizens? Should they (as happens in WA) be denied 2A rights, or risk deportation of their family members for a felony constructive possession of a firearm?

All of the Founding Fathers started off as English men, so I guess you could call them LPR's at that time, they defined the US, and shaped it into something that people still flock to today, under the Banner of "With Liberty and Justice for all..." I don't see a qualification of that statement.

Again as MD_Willington said, as an LPR, I have had background checks performed by the FBI, US, and UK intelligence agencies.

I am also in process of Naturalizing. Why? because I love this country, you have freedoms, that many other developed nations have already squashed in the interests of the many, you have some problems, but there is grit and determination in the People, and the Country to resolve those problems, and they're problems that people acknowledge and feel responsible for.

Like the founding fathers, I started my life as an English man. I'm intent on becoming an American (in this I feel a great respect, for the Constitution, and the Bill of Rights, I will uphold them in the spirit they were written to my last breath) and I feel to a degree humbled that I am following in their footsteps.

I've said my piece.

 

[cubanitojr]

Hey guys. What kind of GUNS are you planning to buy??

I want a pistol Smith&Wesson M&P .40 and Remington Model 750 Woodmaster Carbine OR Kel-tec RFB carbine, then go pig hunting.

 

[waverace]

Well put Gungnir I dont think that I have anything to add except that this law affects an estimated 15000 people here in WA state many of them are NRA and SAF members , by their contributions and actions they are supporting the rights of US citizens as well as their own without a thought of color , race or social standing , simply put we are all people who have a love of firearms and shooting , for the right reasons .