NRA Rules vs Four Rules

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

From being on THR and TFL, it would seem the "Four Rules" are vastly popular. Why does the NRA "3 rules of gun safety" differ? Wouldn't it make sense to for one system to adopt the other, so people are learning the same safety no matter who they are learning from? The NRA rules lack "Be sure of your target..." and "all guns are always loaded", but instead have "Keep all guns unloaded until ready to shoot." Why is that?

 

[Eric F]

I look at it like this, same schools of thought. One is just a tiny bit diffrent to keep off the copy right infringment laws.

 

[Omnivore]

It's not a big deal-- just that different people look at things differently. Either set of rules, if followed thoughtfully, will prevent gun accidents.

The NRA three rules are easy to learn quickly, but I find it makes sense to explain them using actual situations as examples. "Always point the gun in a safe direction" covers the "Know your target and what is beyond it" rule. It's just that the latter gives you another way to think about it. I teach the NRA 3 rules, and then add the fourth ("know your target...") as a way of getting people to think more about it when in the field.

 

[taliv]

Why is that?

because the NRA is full of lawyers and people who espouse the "4 rules" are mostly shooters

not to put too fine a point on it, but the NRA rules are blatantly stupid.

Case in point: "Keep all guns unloaded until ready to shoot."

seriously, you'd have to be smoking crack to think that's a good idea.

 

[mekender]

Case in point: "Keep all guns unloaded until ready to shoot."

because the NRA focuses almost all of its resources on shooting sports and not defensive firearms use... for sporting guns, there is no real reason not to keep them unloaded...

though in my NRA instructors class, we decided that a gun laying on your nightstand is indeed in use as a defensive firearm and as such should be kept loaded...

 

[taliv]

so for example, hunting. whether you're hunting squirrels or cape buffalo, does anyone wait until they see the animal and then load their gun? or do they walk around with a loaded gun knowing full well they might not take a shot all day?



"for sporting guns, there is no real reason not to keep them unloaded... "

but there's a HUGE compelling reason to continue to treat them as if they were loaded

 

[Catherine]

Timing~~~

QUOTE:


Quote:
Why is that?
because the NRA is full of lawyers and people who espouse the "4 rules" are mostly shooters

not to put too fine a point on it, but the NRA rules are blatantly stupid.

Case in point: "Keep all guns unloaded until ready to shoot."

seriously, you'd have to be smoking crack to think that's a good idea.

~~~~~

I agree with that point and thank you!

If you are in the middle of a home invasion, a rape, a robbery, a killer ready to slice & dice you and throw you on the side of the road like a bag of garbage, a kidnapping attempt, someone ready to hurt you or a loved one, etc. --- you would have to say:

"Excuse me bad person, stop and stay right there in THAT position, don't move now, ok, ok, pretty please, while I unlock my safe, take my gun out of it, unlock my ammunition storage unit and take my box of ammo out of it, load UP my firearm, position myself, etc." OR "I am in my car, bad person, stop and let me hit you with my high heels because my GOV and my dumb ___, anti gun politicos will NOT let me keep my firearm loaded or near me... it is all in my trunk so wait there and let me run back and get them now! Banging noise with the high heels on the bad person's head now... hear it?" OR MY goobmint officials that I elected and pay their wages/bennies along with my peace officers do NOT trust me with a GUN - NOT ALLOWED HERE ____ fill in the blanks. What makes their lives worth anymore than YOUR life? Nothing, absolutely nothing!

I lived in a state (Former!) with a former RINO lying Gov. who lied to the people who elected him when it came to CCW and other gun issues. Been there - done that! CCW passed in that state AFTER I moved out west. The anti gun/anti freedom RINOs were as bad as any other anti gun political party___ fill in the blanks!

The state highway patrol in my former state, my late husband's home state NOT mine, (Mass media and newspaper articles.) used to tell women not to STOP at rest stops and other places to use a bathroom because there was an increase in rapes, beatings, robberies and MURDERS. They told women not to ride alone after dark and other bs like other 'officials' in OTHER anti gun states tell women/men what to do because they REFUSE them the basic right to SELF DEFENSE due to bad/stupid LAWS.

It always amazes me when it comes to keeping a gun unloaded... especially a SELF DEFENSE GUN. What the blazes would that TOOL do to help YOU when you have to STOP and load it when seconds not minutes count?!? Kind of like calling 911 and having a long response time because you live in the boonies or if the town/city police are BUSY!

I am not talking about doing stupid things with your firearms but if you have a SELF DEFENSE GUN for YOU and yours if you have family or even a dog... it needs to be READY for YOU to USE when seconds count!

Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition. Amen!

Catherine - Armed and Female

 

[RPCVYemen]

Oddly enough, I learned yet another set of 3 rules growing up - and I swear it was from the NRA. Nothing about keeping a weapon unloaded. Here's what I learned:

1. Never point a gun at anyone or anything you aren't willing to shoot.
2. Always be sure of your target, and what's behind it.
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot.

Is it possible that the NRA's 3 rules have changed over the years? It's been a half century since I learned those rules, but I swear that there were only three, and that I have the wording pretty close. I think we had to be able to recite them by heart to get a badge or patch.

Maybe I am getting to be an old codger, but I think #1 covers the more modern "treat every weapon as though it's loaded" a little better. Never strike me as stronger than "treat .. as though".

Does anyone else recall this set of three rules?

Mike

 

[VARifleman]

The NRA rules are great for beginners and range use. The Cooper rules are more suited to combat use of guns. They both work well as long as you know when to apply one set as opposed to the other.

 

[Monkeybear]

"Keep all guns unloaded until ready to shoot."

This is easy enough for me to understand.

As you go sleep at night with your shotgun next to your bed or go about your day with that pistol on your waist are you ready to shoot your defensive firearm? Sure I am, thats why I have it. Since I am ready to use it at a moments notice I keep it loaded.

As you hunt are you not prepared to use, and by 'use' I mean shoot, your firearm? Of course you are, so it should be loaded.

I interpret the NRA rules to mean "don't keep a safe full of loaded guns".

That said, I do keep my safe full of loaded guns. I always know right off the bat that every gun is loaded and needs to be cleared, without a doubt. Its different than knowing that I should clear every gun. Kinda the same reason I don't like safety levers, so I never have to check that damn lever to see where it is.


As far as why the rules are different, well the NRA has to be political whereas all us guys on the net do not. We get to be practical. Anyone with a very large, close family probably appreciates the difference.

 

[taliv]

and therein lines the rub, varifleman. you can't expect people to apply different rules to different situations as consistently as they can apply a single set. hence, we should expect more accidents following the NRA rules than cooper's. a single set of rules that covers all the situations is FAR preferable to multiple sets of rules

yemen, those are 3 of the 4 rules. you're just missing "all guns are always loaded"

 

[Catherine]

My good, late parents taught me the RULES about gun safety out of their own mouths. My mentors did the same thing. They did that with ALL other types of rules for us when it came to any SAFETY ISSUE, moral, religious, common sense and using the brain that the good Lord gave you too! Another one... don't dive into shallow water, look before you cross the road/street, don't do x, y or z, etc.

My late husband, a good gun man and former military man, taught me his rules.

I have read the NRA's and Cooper's rules. I agree with many SAFETY RULES and I abide by them.

Basically many of them agree... my point about the self defense gun means a lot to ME along with basic safety issues. I want my TOOL to be ready to use in a self defense issue as a lady who WAS alone often and still is alone a lot during various time frames. A loaded gun that I KNOW how to use and operate safely is my defense! I am only 5'3" tall so if you think that I could defend myself against a bigger man or more than one perp with my size, although I can run fast, with a weak left side due to an old injury, some arthritis on and off... no way! That is my point. My firearm is a tool to ME as my stove is for heating my tea kettle! Coffee pot for my morning coffee... same deal.

Been there - done that on response times in my former state!

My groom aka husband has taught me a lot too. He is an outstanding shooter, a good self defense instructor, a good hunter, etc. He is big into self defense issues as my late husband was too!

Sincerely,

Catherine

 

[Poor East Texan]

1. Never point a gun at anyone or anything you aren't willing to shoot.
2. Always be sure of your target, and what's behind it.
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot.

These are the ones I cling to....

 

[RoadkingLarry]

Case in point: "Keep all guns unloaded until ready to shoot."

seriously, you'd have to be smoking crack to think that's a good idea.

I always ready to shoot, I just hope I never have to.

 

[tmajors]

because the NRA focuses almost all of its resources on shooting sports and not defensive firearms use... for sporting guns, there is no real reason not to keep them unloaded...

True that. My two sporting guns (1 rifle and 1 shotgun) are always unloaded even in transport. I don't load em until I am carrying them in the field. My defense guns (other shotgun and my sidearm) are pretty much always loaded.

 

[mekender]

i believe that the NRA manuals also mention storage unloaded in the same areas that they talk about keeping them unloaded when not in use... the implication is that in-use is either storage or transport

 

[Trebor]

Guys, there seems to be some misunderstanding as to what exactly the NRA rules *really* say. If you are going to compare the "NRA rules" with the "4 Rules," it helps if you actually *know* the NRA rules.

From the NRA website:

http://www.nrahq.org/education/guide.asp

The Three Rules of Safe Gun Handling

1. ALWAYS keep the gun pointed in a safe direction.
This is the primary rule of gun safety. A safe direction means that the gun is pointed so that even if it were to go off it would not cause injury or damage. The key to this rule is to control where the muzzle or front end of the barrel is pointed at all times. Common sense dictates the safest direction, depending on different circumstances.

2. ALWAYS keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot.
When holding a gun, rest your finger on the trigger guard or along the side of the gun. Until you are actually ready to fire, do not touch the trigger.

3. ALWAYS keep the gun unloaded until ready to use.
Whenever you pick up a gun, immediately engage the safety device if possible, and, if the gun has a magazine, remove it before opening the action and looking into the chamber(s) which should be clear of ammunition. If you do not know how to open the action or inspect the chamber(s), leave the gun alone and get help from someone who does.


Notice that "Rule 3" says "Always keep the gun unloaded until ready to use." It does NOT say "...until ready to shoot."

In the "Personal Protection in the Home" course material the NRA clarifies that a DEFENSIVE GUN is considered to be IN USE. They specifically say that since you are USING the defensive gun, by having it ready for self defense, it can be loaded and still be in compliance with the rules.

The idea that you shouldn't load until you are "Ready to Shoot" is not actually in the NRA rules, so don't criticize the NRA rules for something that isn't actually there.

 

[Trebor]

I prefer the NRA rules to Cooper's Rules. Here's why:

The "All Guns are Always Loaded" is designed to get people to respect firearms and not to treat them casually, even if they *believe* the firearm is unloaded.

There is a problem with this rule though. You can't treat it 100% literally *all* of the time. If you pay strict, literal adherance to this rule, you could *never* clean your gun, because you never clean a loaded gun and if "All Guns are Always Loaded" that means there is NO SUCH THING AS AN UNLOADED GUN.

Ok, so that's where common sense comes in, right? So now we are *mentally* adjusting the rule to read, "All Guns are Always Loaded...Unless You Sure They Aren't So You Can Clean Them."

Oh, and what about dry-fire practice? If "All Guns Are Always Loaded," you can never do dry-fire practice either then, right, because you wouldn't do dry-fire with a loaded gun.

That leads to another mental adjustment to "All Guns Are Always Loaded...Unless We Are Sure They Aren't"

So now we have two exceptions to the "All Guns Are Always Loaded" rule where the shooter has to mentally modify the rule in order to do common firearms tasks.

So what we have is a rule that is supposed to be *ABSOLUTE* but which, in reality, has to be ignored in two common situations (cleaning and dry firing).

That weakens the rule. By having a rule that you realize you really CAN'T follow 100% of the time, you can become comfortable with not following the rule and that can lead a person to not follow the rule when they really SHOULD be following the rule.

I think "Cooper's Four Rules" work fine for most people, most times, but I don't think they are superior to the NRA "Three Rules of Safe Gun Handling" for the reasons I explained above.

 

[Trebor]

The NRA also has additional rules that complement the "3 Rules" above. They are:

When using or storing a gun, always follow these NRA rules:

Know your target and what is beyond.
Be absolutely sure you have identified your target beyond any doubt. Equally important, be aware of the area beyond your target. This means observing your prospective area of fire before you shoot. Never fire in a direction in which there are people or any other potential for mishap. Think first. Shoot second.

Know how to use the gun safely.
Before handling a gun, learn how it operates. Know its basic parts, how to safely open and close the action and remove any ammunition from the gun or magazine. Remember, a gun's mechanical safety device is never foolproof. Nothing can ever replace safe gun handling.

Be sure the gun is safe to operate.
Just like other tools, guns need regular maintenance to remain operable. Regular cleaning and proper storage are a part of the gun's general upkeep. If there is any question concerning a gun's ability to function, a knowledgeable gunsmith should look at it.

Use only the correct ammunition for your gun.
Only BBs, pellets, cartridges or shells designed for a particular gun can be fired safely in that gun. Most guns have the ammunition type stamped on the barrel. Ammunition can be identified by information printed on the box and sometimes stamped on the cartridge. Do not shoot the gun unless you know you have the proper ammunition.

Wear eye and ear protection as appropriate.
Guns are loud and the noise can cause hearing damage. They can also emit debris and hot gas that could cause eye injury. For these reasons, shooting glasses and hearing protectors should be worn by shooters and spectators.

Never use alcohol or over-the-counter, prescription or other drugs before or while shooting.
Alcohol, as well as any other substance likely to impair normal mental or physical bodily functions, must not be used before or while handling or shooting guns.

Store guns so they are not accessible to unauthorized persons.
Many factors must be considered when deciding where and how to store guns. A person's particular situation will be a major part of the consideration. Dozens of gun storage devices, as well as locking devices that attach directly to the gun, are available. However, mechanical locking devices, like the mechanical safeties built into guns, can fail and should not be used as a substitute for safe gun handling and the observance of all gun safety rules.

Be aware that certain types of guns and many shooting activities require additional safety precautions.

Cleaning
Regular cleaning is important in order for your gun to operate correctly and safely. Taking proper care of it will also maintain its value and extend its life. Your gun should be cleaned every time that it is used.
A gun brought out of prolonged storage should also be cleaned before shooting. Accumulated moisture and dirt, or solidified grease and oil, can prevent the gun from operating properly.

Before cleaning your gun, make absolutely sure that it is unloaded. The gun's action should be open during the cleaning process. Also, be sure that no ammunition is present in the cleaning area.

 

[bdickens]

Both sets of rules express largely the same ideas.

As noted above, NRA rule #3 tells you to keep your guns unloaded "until ready to use." The shotgun kept in your closet to repel home invaders is "ready o use." The handgun you carry for self-defense is "ready to use." Seems simple enough to me.

 

[42]

really do you need much more than.

Keep your finger off the bang switch until your shooting.

check the gun to see if it is loaded.

make sure the dam thing works

point it only at target or safe direction.

 

[ctdonath]

A key advantage of Cooper's Four Rules over the 3 NRA Rules is that they overlap: if you violate one, the other three will still keep you safe.

 

[3KillerBs]

I find the two sets of rules mutually reinforcing. To facilitate memorization for everyone in the family I did them up in attractive fonts, printed them out, and taped them to the bathroom walls in line of sight from the toilet seat.

It sounds nutty, but this is an excellent way to get people to memorize things painlessly and with minimal effort.

The rule about keeping guns and ammo separate when not in use is particularly important for households with children. Especially clever children.

Of course a defense gun under an adult's direct control IS in use.

 

[kludge]

Ove the past couple years I've been asking myself the same question... and I've decided that I like the NRA rules better. The reason: The Cooper rules tend toward what not to do, the NRA rules tend toward what to do.

As some have already pointed out... the fouth NRA rule is "Know your target and what is beyond."

Also somewhere in the NRA Basic Pisol Course... either in the instructor's manual or the student manual, it says that a gun used for self defense is technically "in use" and each individual has to weigh the importance of keeping a loaded gun vs. unloaded storage...

My personal rule is: if it's on my hip or locked in the bedside gun safe then it's OK to be loaded. NEVER leave a loaded gun unattended; If your gun is loaded you must ALWAYS be in control of it.

 

[ColinthePilot]

I'm kind of proud and embarassed at the same time. I have to think about the rules if asked to recite them. I go with the four rather than three. The rules are just part of my behavior. They're so engrained that I think "SAFETY" anytime I'm around guns, but I don't sit there and think "ok, now don't point this at anything, check, finger off the trigger, check..." My finger naturally falls where it belongs, I haven't swept anyone in a few years (at 22, and only 3 years as a gun owner, thats a long time) I clear every weapon when I pick it up, and I only shoot at established ranges.
My parents also taught me gun safety right along with "look both ways" and "don't drink the bleach." Even though we didn't have guns in the house till I was much older, my dad held my toy guns to the same standards. If I pointed my toy rifle at anyone, I got a good firm spanking and an eternity (5min or so) to think about it in the corner.