NY "getting tough" on gun crimes... such as possession of one.

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WeedWhacker

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http://wireservice.wired.com/wired/story.asp?section=Breaking&storyId=1533006

NYC gun court gets tough on offenders


By TOM HAYS Associated Press Writer
Monday, June 05, 2006 7:31 a.m. ET

NEW YORK (AP) -- The court case listed as the People vs. Godfrey Hayle looked like an unremarkable one: Police claimed the 44-year-old suspect tried to ditch a 9 mm handgun last year during a drug bust.

But when Hayle walked into a downtown Brooklyn courtroom last week, state Supreme Court Justice Robert Holdman was unusually attentive _ and blunt. For starters, he shot down a defense attorney's bid for a plea deal with no jail time.

"That's not going to happen in this case," Holdman said. "The offer from the district attorney's office is one year. I'm comfortable with that."

It was a message that Holdman _ a 42-year-old former prosecutor with a crewcut _ sent several times that morning: Don't expect much leniency in one of the nation's busiest gun courts.

"I'm not the gun czar or the new sheriff in town," Holdman said later outside court. "But I am here to uphold the law and make sure justice is done."

While the strategy of making certain cases a priority by funneling them to the same judge in a specialized court isn't unique, gun courts have become a cornerstone of Mayor Michael Bloomberg's highly publicized crusade to discourage criminals from selling, buying and using illegal firearms in the five boroughs.

Bloomberg and judicial officials announced the opening of gun courts in Brooklyn, the Bronx and Queens about three years ago. Since then, the percentage of gun-possession defendants receiving one-year jail terms or longer has roughly doubled, city officials said.

The Brooklyn District Attorney's Office alone has handled roughly 1,100 cases in gun court since 2003, with about a 90 percent conviction rate. More than half the defendants are between the ages of 16 to 21 years old. Most were caught carrying semiautomatic handguns.

Prosecutors in Brooklyn demand a minimum one-year sentence, even for first-time offenders who technically could receive probation. If defendants don't agree to do the time, they're forced to go to trial, often within six months _ lightning speed for the courts. If convicted, they could go away for two years or longer.

"We see every possession of a gun as a potential homicide," said Sue-Ellen Bienenfeld, who supervises six prosecutors assigned to the Brooklyn gun court. "We don't want to wait for somebody to actually be killed."

The country's first gun court was established in Providence, R.I., in 1994. They later turned up in Philadelphia, Baltimore, Milwaukee and elsewhere _ part of a trend that also produced drug, truancy and domestic violence courts.

Advocates say such so-called specialty courts resolve cases with more efficiency and consistency. But some legal experts question their value.

Ian Weinstein, a professor at Fordham Law School, said there's no reliable data showing gun courts deter crime. He also argues the courts erode "a generally valued safeguard" of randomly assigning cases to different judges with diverse views and ways of dispensing justice.

The alternative makes for "uniform sentencing that's often uniformly harsh," Weinstein said.

Critics of the no-nonsense system might point to the case of Edward Kogan _ a Russian immigrant, bus driver and, by gun court standards, a geriatric suspect.

Police arrested Kogan, 68, in January after spotting a pistol sticking out of his pocket. He also was carrying $11,000 in cash.

Kogan claims the money was his life savings, and that he carried the gun to protect it. In court, his lawyer argued his client was too old and sick with Parkinson's disease to be put behind bars like a common thug.

But Holdman wasn't buying it, in part because police alleged that Kogan had tried to bribe them. As the suspect listened through a Russian interpreter, the judge warned that any plea deal would involve jail time and forfeiture of the money.

Afterward, Kogan's attorney, Barry Black, said he considers Holdman a fair judge. But he also believes his client and others may be victims of prosecutors and politicians more concerned with their crime-fighting credentials than fair play.

The gun court approach "can take the equity out of plea bargaining and turn it into a much more rigid exercise," he said. "You could be Mother Teresa and you're going to jail for a year."

I wasn't aware that there were special "gun courts"... The special tax courts seemed bad enough. Of course, not to mention the whole "keep and bear arms" and "shall not be infringed" business...
 
"We see every possession of a gun as a potential homicide," said Sue-Ellen Bienenfeld, who supervises six prosecutors assigned to the Brooklyn gun court.

:barf: :fire:

But that IS the anti's hoplophobe inner belief, isn't it?
 
"We see every possession of a gun as a potential homicide," said Sue-Ellen Bienenfeld
Interesting that she doesn't specify illegal possession.

the judge warned that any plea deal would involve jail time and forfeiture of the money.
And why does he have to forfeit the money?

Since when do judges get to dictate a plea deal? It isn't a deal if it's dictated by the judge!!
 
"We see every possession of a gun as a potential homicide," said Sue-Ellen Bienenfeld,
By this "logic" and by virtue of her being female, the State should see Sue-Ellen Bienenfeld as a potential prostitute and take appropriate action, right?
 
Another city getting 0 dollars from me. How do they justify seizing this old man's life savings? What crime was the money involved in? If he survives in prison for a year, then he'll end up dead on the street, killed as surely by thier hand as if they had pulled the trigger.
 
having lived there for most of my life I'll add this.
If there's a guy in court on a gun charge there's always another charge that's more serious. The gun charge is thrown in to make life more difficult.
Find me a middle class white guy that's done nothing but carry an unregistered gun that winds up in court. It ain't happening.

AFS
 
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Hank, you made me spit out my coffee!

"By this "logic" and by virtue of her being female, the State should see Sue-Ellen Bienenfeld as a potential prostitute and take appropriate action, right?"
-Hankb

Jesus, man, it's Monday, and I'm laughing my coffee out my nose!
I couldn't agree more!
 
By this "logic" and by virtue of her being female, the State should see Sue-Ellen Bienenfeld as a potential prostitute and take appropriate action, right? -HankB

man i wish i could come up with stuff like that.
 
I was just about to post a thread on this.

""We see every possession of a gun as a potential homicide," said Sue-Ellen Bienenfeld, who supervises six prosecutors assigned to the Brooklyn gun court. "We don't want to wait for somebody to actually be killed.""

That annoys me to no end.:mad: :mad: :mad:
 
Once "gun courts" become fully accepted, we will have "speech courts," "press courts," and "religion courts."
 
At some point the balance will tipp too far. There are hungry hogs waiting to be fed.
+1.

One day they're going to try and arrest the wrong guy. (Or the right guy, in my book.) I am looking forward to that day.
 
""We see every possession of a gun as a potential homicide," said Sue-Ellen Bienenfeld, who supervises six prosecutors assigned to the Brooklyn gun court. "We don't want to wait for somebody to actually be killed.""
That's truly an amazing statement in a nation that started its war for independence over an effort by government to confiscate civilian firearms. I am referring, of course, to the battles of Lexington and Concord, which were fought by civilians resisting British efforts to confiscate their weapons.
 
Quote:
""We see every possession of a gun as a potential homicide," said Sue-Ellen Bienenfeld, who supervises six prosecutors assigned to the Brooklyn gun court. "We don't want to wait for somebody to actually be killed.""

That's truly an amazing statement in a nation that started its war for independence over an effort by government to confiscate civilian firearms. I am referring, of course, to the battles of Lexington and Concord, which were fought by civilians resisting British efforts to confiscate their weapons.

...I couldn't agree more......but this isn't a case of Lexington and Concord. The facts of THIS case have a low-life ditching a handgun during a drug bust. We almost ALL can agree that someone committing a crime with a gun should do jail time ! As for Ms. Sue-Ellen Bienefeld's quote regarding locking EVERYONE up who possess a gun we might just be taking that sentiment out of context......not that I don't think there are plenty of elected officials that are on a mission to neuter our constitutional right to "keep and bear arms".
In major metropolitan areas it's probably gun totin' low-life criminals and gang-bangers that have done as much or more to damage the "Second" than bleeding heart Brady types....or let's just say the one "feeds off" the other....and vice versa !

-Regards
 
The Brooklyn District Attorney's Office alone has handled roughly 1,100 cases in gun court since 2003, with about a 90 percent conviction rate. More than half the defendants are between the ages of 16 to 21 years old. Most were caught carrying semiautomatic handguns.

It seems more than half of defendants were in (probable) violation of both state and federal law and wouldn't have been legal to carry in almost any city in the US.

So it isn't completely a travesty. If the Sullivan Law didn't exist, this would be exactly the kind of "enforce exisiting gun laws" solution we are asking for.
 
Hmmm, "enforcing the laws already on the books"...

Gee, to bad they're not giving credit to the NRA's Project Exile.

And besides, if the GOA, the SAF, and the other "hard core" gun-rights groups were complaining about it, it must be a good "compromise" right?
 
"We see every possession of a gun as a potential homicide," said Sue-Ellen Bienenfeld, who supervises six prosecutors assigned to the Brooklyn gun court. "We don't want to wait for somebody to actually be killed."
:rolleyes:
Old Sue-Ellen would have a real problem with my little collection and those of a few friends....
 
Another thing I found in the article to be very disturbing was the issue with the older Russian gent (who needed an interpreter, by the way) and the way the judge/court handled the case. (For the sake of being realistic, I'm overlooking the fact that all laws repugnant to the Constitution are null and void.)

Russian government officials were (are?) often corrupt - thus perhaps some mitigating circumstances for the alleged bribe attempt... which was allegedly attempted after what crime was committed??

The confiscation of funds. What's the difference between taking $11,000 from someone who committed a "crime" unrelated to the money in question? Jailbirds get their zippos and pocketknives back... and what's the difference in stealing/seizing $11,000 in cash vs. stealing/seizing a house/car/etc.?

Seems the 'ol fella could have been given a few more lessons on life in America (banks are generally safe, gov't isn't generally corrupt), but instead they chose to throw the book at him. Admittedly, I don't know the whole story, but considering his sole "offense" was mere possession of an item mentioned BY NAME in the Constitution, well, the whole thing stinks.
 
Maybe

this
"We see every possession of a gun as a potential homicide," said Sue-Ellen Bienenfeld'
was taken out of context BUT
How does this moron explain cops ???
 
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