Of pigs and mountain lions....

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Selfdfenz

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The wild hog threads over the past few days got me to thinking.

I wonder in places where their ranges overlap if mountain lions can successfully prey on wild hogs? Not the little ones but say the average 200 #er. I'm thinking not.

How about bears?

Inquiring minds want to know.

S-
 
Mr. Lion generally goes for a choke hold on the throat with his Nice Sharp Teeth. You look at how a hog is built, and it's easy to see that a hog with any size is a problem for Mr. Lion.

I know they do take javelinas, which generally weigh around 40 pounds. I imagine a lion would go for a shoat or middlin-sized hog...

Art
 
The other method of attack lions seem to go for (from what I've read) is to jump on the preys back and bit the back of their neck, breaking it. Since a pig has a big fat neck and their spinal cord passes more through the center than the top, I'm gonna guess that that method wouldn't be quite as effective on a pig either.
Just a thought though, don't know for sure.
 
Thanks guys.

In hind sight I guess a fully grown lion could best a fair sized hog. Since hogs are group critters the chance of finding a hog alone would make things complex for the lion.

The hog threads gave me a lot of respect for those critters. They are raggedly tough out of proportion to their size and the fighting equipment they are issued.

By and large it still seems there are few preditors that stand to make much of dent in the wild hog population. Men included.

S-
 
Can a cat kill a hog? Sure...

Will it? I don't think so. Redneck and Art covered alot of the physical why it would be hard. But the other thing is hogs fight back. Every predator has to be able to harvest prey without depleting more than it will gain from the food source. We turn alot of dogs into a hog and only the smallest are ever killed by the dogs.

Some of the dogs we hunt are Dogo Argentinos, they where bred to hunt boar and mountain lion in Argentina years ago. I watched a video of their debut to the public in Argentina years ago and they placed a 120lb dogo in a pen with a 150lb cat. It took 10 minutes but the dog whipped the cat, finally got around on the cat and got a head bite in and that was the end of the cat. So a dog that is capable of killing a mountain lion is only capable of killing smaller hogs. We've had times where a dogo or pitbull killed a 30-50lb hog by biting it so hard at the base of the skull it resulted in death.

But even little hogs are rough customers and most of the time even 100lb hogs manage to ding the dogs up some. As far as one on one the dog would most likely die of heat stroke before the hog died of the wounds.

When I was in NM in Jan. I noticed lots of hog sign and when I asked I was told that people had released hogs because they felt it would keep the Mountain lions from preying on Elk and Mule Deer. I'd say all they did was plant a pest that will simply add to the mortality of elk and mule deer as the hogs search out fawns and calves as they are born and eat them. I found lots of lion tracks around the deer and elk herds, but rarely found a track anywhere around the areas the hogs frequented. But then the hogs seemed to push the deer and elk out...

So it probably happens, but I bet the first time a cat hits one is probably the last time they make that prey selection unless they are simply starving and have no choice.

Below is a pick of a part Dogo in action in Argentina in the recent past. This pic was posted by a man who lives and hunts in Argentina.

Steve
 

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From the FWIW department: I used to lease some state land up in the Davis Mountains, not far northwest of the McDonald observatory. it came a spell where I was seeing more lion tracks than deer tracks. During that period, I saw a quite large feral hog. I guesstimated him at well over 200 pounds; maybe 300. Aside from some "coyote wars" he got into at night, he was around there fat and sassy for at least three years. He surely was more than a lion wanted for a tangle-session...

:), Art
 
Art,

A good friend's dad owns a ranch out there in that same area (Livermore Ranch). They had several stuffed mountain lions and mountain lion rugs that had been killed out there. There's that guy who is well-known for hunting them in that area...Henry something I think. I really dig that area. Too bad it takes me about 10 hours to get to the ranch! Anyway...now back to our thread.

brad cook
 
It's hard to say. But I think a real hungry cat would try it. The cats in Africa go after game much bigger and tougher than hogs by themselves, I don't see why a cougar wouldn't do the same. That said, they aren't stupid, and I bet they'd only go after a large hog as a last resort. I bet any hog over about 80lbs is probably fairly safe, but I still wouldn't want to be a 150 lb hog walking around with a bunch of hungry cougars around.
 
I once saw footage of a 400 lb. boar and a tiger dueling it out. After about 10 minutes and wounds on both sides, amazingly the animals each went their separate way. I gained much respect for the boar that day.

Who'd have thunk it.!
 
"400 lb. boar and a tiger dueling"
:eek:

In one of the media reports it was said the tiger shot in Cali was 400#s and it looked very full grown to me. Given that tigers are pretty capable of winning tangles with other animals that hog must have been impressive.

I guess you only get to be a 400 pound jungle hog in tiger country by being bad news yourself.

I may to wrong about this but based on a few stories I've read over the years in Field and Stream type mags I get the opinion MLs are dispatched w/o need of super intense firepower. I seem to recall some of the hunters knocked them flat with various handguns.

While I consider cats in general tough customers I have no first hand experience with them. Perhaps MLs are more fragile and knowing that they avoid difficult meals likes pigs over a certain size.

S-
 
Comes to that, I've heard of a lot of treed mountain kitties being taken with .22 WMRF. Distances are pretty short, and the critter's pretty much stable.

It is a good question, though-- just how big a swine would a grown mountain lion decide was too big? If the shoats are too small, there may be Mama to contend with.

Contrary to the picture we usually have of cougars downing a deer a day, they'll happily and regularly eat rabbits and feild mice and the like-- smaller creatures. Why work too hard for dinner? Who needs that?!? :)
 
If you need to eat some 2% or 3% (or whatever it actually is) of your bodyweight in food each day, a hundred-pound lion is gonna be real busy to make it on field mice and quail.

It takes less energy to kill one deer and be in good supply for about a week.

A number of years back, I was coming home from a dance and the headlights picked up Cigar Mountain Mama, headed home with a jackrabbit in her mouth. Maybe for the cubs; quien sabe?

Energy efficiency: If a hawk is not successful in at least one in eight attempts at prey, he dies of starvation from insufficient energy to make that ninth attempt. So say the bug and bunny boys.

Art
 
IIRC those .22 kills on mountain lions are typically a lung shot while the critter is treed. It just sits up there bayed until it bleeds to death.

Supposedly the fear is a shot (from a larger caliber) it can really feel may startle it out of the tree down among the dogs or hunters.
 
i'll put my money on a boar or bear over a cougar, cougars are ambush critters and in a fair fight they'd get their butts whooped
 
Lions are pretty smart critters - they know that if they tackle a prey animal that's beyond thier abilities, they could be injured, crippled, and unable to take prey in the future reliably. The end result is slow starvation and death...

So it's no wonder they run from dogs and wind up sitting atop a high treetop, looking disdainfully down on the crazy K9s wailing below that don't hold the same survivalist attitude. Or that they don't try to tackle things like natural tanks, (hogs) them things have tusks that can rip you apart in seconds...

But I've no doubt they'd take small ones - the interesting question is just how small? The answer is "as small as they feel confident in taking without injury" But how big IS that?
 
There is a pretty well confirmed account of one now stalking pets in Homer, AK. Wayyyyy out of its range. Already there are people wanting to have it hunted down.

I, instead, shall tie steaks to my jacket and take a little walk with Mr. 16" barrel Springfield (can't use its trade name). :evil:
 
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