Henry Bowman
Senior Member
Gun control is not effective crime control. However, even if it were, it is not relevant to our Constitutionally-protected rights.
Ohio: Taft Veto over ridden. 347 is law in 90 days!
- Thread starter gopguy
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Henry Bowman
Senior Member
Deanimator
Member
You act as though THEY believe that. It's more about racism, nihilism and elitism.
Remember, it was Howard Metzenbaum who said something to the effect of, "I don't care about crime. I just want to get the guns."
Linda, you earned every bit of praise I gave. You are too modest. Between your activism, articles and appearances on NRA News with Cam Edwards you are amazing. I rate you right up there with Ann Coulter and my dear friend Rachel Winkler who was the NRA YES Scholarship winner of 2004. You go above and beyond and we are delighted to have you with us. You are every man's dream, a pro gun woman! lol
There will indeed be challenges, but I suspect the wording in Cincinnati Vs.Baskin will help us stave it off.
Here are some of the grumblings in the papers. Tim
http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/article3442.htm
Legionnaire
Contributing Member
"A, O, Oh way to go, Ohio!" - The Pretenders
Steve Wynn
Member
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2006
- Messages
- 63
I haven't read the complete law of before and 90 days from now version. Does Ohio recognize other state's CCW permits.
Steve
Steve
Mortech
Member
Yes they do recognize other states permits , my WA one is recognized for example . I always found their car carry rules extremely absurd when I went to visit my dad who still lives in eastern OH . I even had to make up a special thigh holster the occasions .
Linda
Member
Ah geez.....,
Ann Coulter & Rachel Winkler? My goodness, what an incrediable compliment! Thank you Tim!
Letter in columbus Dispatch
Home rule is causing many to flee Ohio
Saturday, December 16, 2006
Regarding the recent passage of the new statewide concealed-carry law and general firearms regulations, Cleveland Law Director Robert Triozzi said, "This legislature, from predatory lending, to residency, to red-light cameras and now concealed weapons, is continuing an assault on the rights of our people."
State Sen. Eric Fingerhut, a Shaker Heights Democrat, said, "The epitaph of the Ohio 126 th General Assembly has to be the death of home rule," as if individual freedoms have been eroded.
The statements by these gentlemen are oxymoronic. What gall these two have claiming their interpretation of home rule has something to do with individual rights, when the general laws they are complaining about, passed by the General Assembly, give individuals more freedom. These two despots lose power, not rights, when our government fulfills its role as a republic.
Ohioans do not want the Statehouse to have a majority of these two kinds of politicians, who want to usurp our republic by establishing a City-State system and they vote accordingly. Ohioans want to retain their rights. They do not want to be spied upon and ticketed without driver identification. They do not want to be forced to live in the city they work for. They do not want to be arrested because they were not aware of all the firearms laws of every city through which they drive.
Home rule has been abused for a decade. It is no longer about local freedom. It is about more power for local politicians who want to rule, not govern. Since liberal Democrats from metropolitan areas have not had control of the state government for the past several years, they try to regain power by usurping the state government with a broadening of the intent of home rule.
County commissioners, city councils and mayors need to focus on improving and managing infrastructure and not on empowering themselves through home rule at the expense of individual freedom.
Ohioans need jobs, and it is because of the morass of complicated and negative bureaucracies, and a plethora of myopic laws and fees created by our city governments, due largely to Ohio being a home-rule state, that businesses and individuals are leaving in droves. Jobs and more individual freedoms are in states that do not have home rule, because, simply put, home rule has become a disguise for more rule.
BRENT GREER
Columbus
http://www.columbusdispatch.com/editorials-story.php?story=dispatch/2006/12/16/20061216-A9-03.html
Home rule is causing many to flee Ohio
Saturday, December 16, 2006
Regarding the recent passage of the new statewide concealed-carry law and general firearms regulations, Cleveland Law Director Robert Triozzi said, "This legislature, from predatory lending, to residency, to red-light cameras and now concealed weapons, is continuing an assault on the rights of our people."
State Sen. Eric Fingerhut, a Shaker Heights Democrat, said, "The epitaph of the Ohio 126 th General Assembly has to be the death of home rule," as if individual freedoms have been eroded.
The statements by these gentlemen are oxymoronic. What gall these two have claiming their interpretation of home rule has something to do with individual rights, when the general laws they are complaining about, passed by the General Assembly, give individuals more freedom. These two despots lose power, not rights, when our government fulfills its role as a republic.
Ohioans do not want the Statehouse to have a majority of these two kinds of politicians, who want to usurp our republic by establishing a City-State system and they vote accordingly. Ohioans want to retain their rights. They do not want to be spied upon and ticketed without driver identification. They do not want to be forced to live in the city they work for. They do not want to be arrested because they were not aware of all the firearms laws of every city through which they drive.
Home rule has been abused for a decade. It is no longer about local freedom. It is about more power for local politicians who want to rule, not govern. Since liberal Democrats from metropolitan areas have not had control of the state government for the past several years, they try to regain power by usurping the state government with a broadening of the intent of home rule.
County commissioners, city councils and mayors need to focus on improving and managing infrastructure and not on empowering themselves through home rule at the expense of individual freedom.
Ohioans need jobs, and it is because of the morass of complicated and negative bureaucracies, and a plethora of myopic laws and fees created by our city governments, due largely to Ohio being a home-rule state, that businesses and individuals are leaving in droves. Jobs and more individual freedoms are in states that do not have home rule, because, simply put, home rule has become a disguise for more rule.
BRENT GREER
Columbus
http://www.columbusdispatch.com/editorials-story.php?story=dispatch/2006/12/16/20061216-A9-03.html
Linda
Member
Ah, great letter to the editor from Brent Greer! 
Brent is my friend and is in leadership with PRO, the People's Rights Organization!
Brent is my friend and is in leadership with PRO, the People's Rights Organization!
Deanimator
Member
HB347 eliminates that idiocy. Carry in a holster on your person, in a locked glovebox, or a locked container in plain sight.
OHIO CONCEALED CARRY CHANGES AT A GLANCE:
Carrying in a motor vehicle has been changed so that the requirement to carry “in plain sight” is no longer the only way to carry a firearm on your person. A license holder may carry in one of the following ways, including a concealed holster on their person:
o The handgun is in a holster on the person’s person;
o The handgun is in a closed case, bag, box, or other container that is in plain sight and that has a lid, a cover, or a closing mechanism with a zipper, snap, or a buckle, all of which must be opened for a person to gain access to the handgun; or
o The handgun is securely encased by being stored in a closed, locked glove compartment or in a case that is locked.
Failure to notify a police officer would become a first-degree misdemeanor (currently a third degree misdemeanor) and include a one-year license suspension. A second charge of this offense would be a fifth degree felony.
In addition to the existing charges for failure to keep your hands in plain sight and remain in a vehicle (M1 for first offense, F5 for subsequent) while stopped would be a new one-year license suspension.
Failure to comply with any lawful order would incur a two-year license suspension in addition to the M1 charges for first offenders and F5 for subsequent offenders. These penalties would also apply to someone who is stopped by law enforcement not necessarily in a motor vehicle.
HB347 requires licensees to now declare (if they are carrying) when approached by a highway patrol motor carrier enforcement inspector. Enforcement inspectors are not fully commissioned peace officers. This section of HB347 should only apply to commercial vehicle licensees.
The application used for initial and renewal applicants would be modified to ask if the applicant has applied anywhere else for a license or permit, including other states.
The cost to apply for a license will no longer be based on how many years a person has lived in the State of Ohio, and will increase to a maximum of $55.
STATEWIDE PREEMPTION:
The most sweeping reform to firearms legislation in the State of Ohio to take place in recent history is statewide preemption. The State would assume authority of all firearms laws, creating a general law “monopoly” on every gun law except zoning restrictions that didn’t completely prevent the sale or use of firearms.
Although HB12 clearly prohibits local governments enacting gun bans and concealed carry bans this change would completely clarify the situation: No local government may pass gun laws or continue in existence any gun laws other than zoning laws. Statewide Preemption would eliminate Toledo’s gun scoring system, Dayton’s gun owner card, and Cleveland, Columbus and the City of Shaker Height’s pointless assault weapons bans.
Further, HB347 would require courts to award costs and reasonable attorney fees to any person or organization, such as Ohioans For Concealed Carry, who prevails in a challenge against an ordinance, rule, or regulation that is in conflict with the statewide preemption clause of HB347. A very recent ruling by the Ohio Supreme Court suggests that this preemption will prevail should local governments attempt to challenge it under the home rule amendment.
OTHER ACTIONS OF THE BILL:
The Ohio Senate has chosen to use HB347 to add Ohio Bureau of Criminal Identification Investigative agents the definition of “peace officer” so that these agents are subject to training and are authorized to carry in the same manner as other peace officers. Ironically, the amendment specifies that these agents do not have arrest authority.
With respect to peace officers HB347 also clarifies that police officers who are subject to annual weapons training and testing are permitted to carry while off-duty if the officer’s appointing authority authorizes them to do so. This is supposedly required to align Ohio law with federal law. (Presumably HR218)
HB347 will create standards for law enforcement agencies to issue identification to meet standards set forth in federal law (Presumably HR218)
HB347 will increase the penalty for stealing a firearm from an FFL to a felony.
Carrying in a motor vehicle has been changed so that the requirement to carry “in plain sight” is no longer the only way to carry a firearm on your person. A license holder may carry in one of the following ways, including a concealed holster on their person:
o The handgun is in a holster on the person’s person;
o The handgun is in a closed case, bag, box, or other container that is in plain sight and that has a lid, a cover, or a closing mechanism with a zipper, snap, or a buckle, all of which must be opened for a person to gain access to the handgun; or
o The handgun is securely encased by being stored in a closed, locked glove compartment or in a case that is locked.
Failure to notify a police officer would become a first-degree misdemeanor (currently a third degree misdemeanor) and include a one-year license suspension. A second charge of this offense would be a fifth degree felony.
In addition to the existing charges for failure to keep your hands in plain sight and remain in a vehicle (M1 for first offense, F5 for subsequent) while stopped would be a new one-year license suspension.
Failure to comply with any lawful order would incur a two-year license suspension in addition to the M1 charges for first offenders and F5 for subsequent offenders. These penalties would also apply to someone who is stopped by law enforcement not necessarily in a motor vehicle.
HB347 requires licensees to now declare (if they are carrying) when approached by a highway patrol motor carrier enforcement inspector. Enforcement inspectors are not fully commissioned peace officers. This section of HB347 should only apply to commercial vehicle licensees.
The application used for initial and renewal applicants would be modified to ask if the applicant has applied anywhere else for a license or permit, including other states.
The cost to apply for a license will no longer be based on how many years a person has lived in the State of Ohio, and will increase to a maximum of $55.
STATEWIDE PREEMPTION:
The most sweeping reform to firearms legislation in the State of Ohio to take place in recent history is statewide preemption. The State would assume authority of all firearms laws, creating a general law “monopoly” on every gun law except zoning restrictions that didn’t completely prevent the sale or use of firearms.
Although HB12 clearly prohibits local governments enacting gun bans and concealed carry bans this change would completely clarify the situation: No local government may pass gun laws or continue in existence any gun laws other than zoning laws. Statewide Preemption would eliminate Toledo’s gun scoring system, Dayton’s gun owner card, and Cleveland, Columbus and the City of Shaker Height’s pointless assault weapons bans.
Further, HB347 would require courts to award costs and reasonable attorney fees to any person or organization, such as Ohioans For Concealed Carry, who prevails in a challenge against an ordinance, rule, or regulation that is in conflict with the statewide preemption clause of HB347. A very recent ruling by the Ohio Supreme Court suggests that this preemption will prevail should local governments attempt to challenge it under the home rule amendment.
OTHER ACTIONS OF THE BILL:
The Ohio Senate has chosen to use HB347 to add Ohio Bureau of Criminal Identification Investigative agents the definition of “peace officer” so that these agents are subject to training and are authorized to carry in the same manner as other peace officers. Ironically, the amendment specifies that these agents do not have arrest authority.
With respect to peace officers HB347 also clarifies that police officers who are subject to annual weapons training and testing are permitted to carry while off-duty if the officer’s appointing authority authorizes them to do so. This is supposedly required to align Ohio law with federal law. (Presumably HR218)
HB347 will create standards for law enforcement agencies to issue identification to meet standards set forth in federal law (Presumably HR218)
HB347 will increase the penalty for stealing a firearm from an FFL to a felony.
Only a liberal could come up with the tortured logic that restoring the law abiding people's right to self defense, and choice of the type of firearm you own is an "assault on the rights of our people"
Democrat Senator Eric Fingerhut is a glittering jewel of ignorance. The man had the nerve to say that “If you don't respect my constituents, you don't respect me.” in the argument over preemption. This from a man who tries to impress his "Cleveland" values of gun banning on the rest of the state and when the legislature restores the right to bear the arms of your choice to the oppressed folks of Cleveland he squeals like a spoiled child. What a hypocrite.
Ozwyn, I completely sympathize with you. I lived in Maryland just outside of DC in the 80s. I could not wait to escape the Peoples Republic of Maryland. That was prior to the "Saturday Night Special ban and semi auto bans" that came right after that. As bad as it was though, it was not DC. I just hope an effective effort can be launched there and in the other states denying the right to self defense. We did it, it took years and hard work but we made it. Despite folks telling us it would never happen. So don't lose hope and keep your efforts focused on the prize.
El Tejon
Member
Hmmm could be, Ohio state po-po lead the defense againt CCW, however I believe most of the noise was politicians using union thugs as cover.
I'm just giddy with glee over this victory in Ohio.
I'm just giddy with glee over this victory in Ohio.
LeoC
Member
CONGRATULATIONS OHIO!
The efforts of rights-lovers in Ohio give those of us in leftist states (ie CA) hope. Thank you for fighting the good fight and showing what's possible
The efforts of rights-lovers in Ohio give those of us in leftist states (ie CA) hope. Thank you for fighting the good fight and showing what's possible
Congratulations to Ohio!
Wisconsin is down, but not out. Good news from other states is only encouraging. And proves the point we've been debating that progressive change is possible.
WI is a special case, it's situation with Gov. Saddlehead means it's all or nothing, we have to have a pro-gun legislature and Governor, but we're the exception that proves the rule. Last election meant we'd get either a great bill, or no bill at all.
Just as Alaska "went vermont", FL has passed all sorts of enhancments to their CCW, and championed "stand your ground", Ohio proves imperfect bills can get better over time.
And frankly, the HUGE defeat in "home rule" you won is probably much more important in the long run than even the car-carry improvment.
The sucesses of our bretheren in Ohio only makes me determined here in WI. Instead of feeling defeated, I feel I have purpose.
Wisconsin is down, but not out. Good news from other states is only encouraging. And proves the point we've been debating that progressive change is possible.
WI is a special case, it's situation with Gov. Saddlehead means it's all or nothing, we have to have a pro-gun legislature and Governor, but we're the exception that proves the rule. Last election meant we'd get either a great bill, or no bill at all.
Just as Alaska "went vermont", FL has passed all sorts of enhancments to their CCW, and championed "stand your ground", Ohio proves imperfect bills can get better over time.
And frankly, the HUGE defeat in "home rule" you won is probably much more important in the long run than even the car-carry improvment.
The sucesses of our bretheren in Ohio only makes me determined here in WI. Instead of feeling defeated, I feel I have purpose.
Molon Labe
Member
Fingerhut is not ignorant; he is wrong.
BrennanKG
Member
Great news and well-done!
B.
B.
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