orangeninja
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What are all the handgun owners supposed to do with these? What about gunshops? Are there any in San Fran? Is owning a handgun going to be a misdemeanor or felony?
Okay...so handgun owners in San Fran are required to surrender thier guns...to whom?
- Thread starter orangeninja
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KriegHund
Member
The police will recieve registration records, and will use these to go door to door once the deadline aproaches.
The police will then melt them down, sell them, or keep them.
My bet would be felony.
The police will then melt them down, sell them, or keep them.
My bet would be felony.
30Cal
Member
The city has no access to state or federal firearms records.
Standing Wolf
Member in memoriam
Yeah, and I've got a bridge in the San Francisco Bay area to sell you.
wingnutx
Member
Yay, free drop-guns for every officer!
ElTacoGrande
Member
There was a quote in one of the articles that there were 220,000 handguns sold in SF in the last ten years. Assume that that's accurate (and disregarding guns that left or guns that are more than ten years old) and that there are somewhere in the neighborhood of a quarter of a million handguns in the city.
If they really did want to enforce this law, even if everyone complied with it, they would have to hire dozens of new police officers just to process all these guns. There are about 2,000 working hours in a year. Let's say that (given processing overhead, etc) a cop working on this full-time can process two guns per hour, or 4,000 guns per year. That means it will take 62 man-years to process all these guns! That's with every gun owner happily consenting to it and bringing his guns in. So if they hope to complete this monumental task within one year they need to hire 62 more cops, at a cost to taxpayers of somewhere around SIX MILLION DOLLARS!
Now, if, say, a thousand gun owners do not comply, and must be arrested and must get jury trials (which cost about $1mil @) the city will need to spend ONE BILLION DOLLARS on this ban. To achieve that, the city would need to sell it's gold-domed city hall and basically all of its other assets in the city (including streets).
Oh and the NRA is suing also (thank you NRA). So, in the absolute best case, the city will spend about $3mil defending the lawsuit and then another $6mil to just collect all the damn things, so in the very very best case of total compliance they are out almost $10mil.
Meanwhile non-residents can buy guns as always, and can in fact possess them in the city without problems. And cops can't take their duty guns home with them.
THERE YOU HAVE IT LADIES AND GENTLEMEN! THAT IS SENSIBLE GUN CONTROL, TO QUOTE SUPERVISOR CHRIS DALY!
If they really did want to enforce this law, even if everyone complied with it, they would have to hire dozens of new police officers just to process all these guns. There are about 2,000 working hours in a year. Let's say that (given processing overhead, etc) a cop working on this full-time can process two guns per hour, or 4,000 guns per year. That means it will take 62 man-years to process all these guns! That's with every gun owner happily consenting to it and bringing his guns in. So if they hope to complete this monumental task within one year they need to hire 62 more cops, at a cost to taxpayers of somewhere around SIX MILLION DOLLARS!
Now, if, say, a thousand gun owners do not comply, and must be arrested and must get jury trials (which cost about $1mil @) the city will need to spend ONE BILLION DOLLARS on this ban. To achieve that, the city would need to sell it's gold-domed city hall and basically all of its other assets in the city (including streets).
Oh and the NRA is suing also (thank you NRA). So, in the absolute best case, the city will spend about $3mil defending the lawsuit and then another $6mil to just collect all the damn things, so in the very very best case of total compliance they are out almost $10mil.
Meanwhile non-residents can buy guns as always, and can in fact possess them in the city without problems. And cops can't take their duty guns home with them.
THERE YOU HAVE IT LADIES AND GENTLEMEN! THAT IS SENSIBLE GUN CONTROL, TO QUOTE SUPERVISOR CHRIS DALY!
PressCheck
Member
Do you think that a person with an "Unrestricted" California CCW can legally carry in San Francisco?
It will be interesting to see what happens.
If S.F. residents turn their guns into the police, the numbers should be reported by the media.
If they choose to sell their guns there thould be a big upswing in the used gun market within the area, as well as auction sites.
And if neither happens it means they are telling the local government to go shove it ...
If S.F. residents turn their guns into the police, the numbers should be reported by the media.
If they choose to sell their guns there thould be a big upswing in the used gun market within the area, as well as auction sites.
And if neither happens it means they are telling the local government to go shove it ...
Have you read the text of the law?
Residents of San Francisco can't have handguns in SF. But they can have them in South SF, or Alameda, or wherever. People with half a brain will just leave them at a friend's house or a storage unit (I'll bet ranges in neighboring towns will make a few bucks off this) until this blows over.
Non-residents of San Francisco CAN have handguns in SF. Seriously.
There's no reason for anyone to surrender anything, and I doubt anyone will, except perhaps some idiot hippie who turns in her (or his, I guess) spouse's gun, in anger.
It's utterly bizarre, and frankly, I think it has always been leftie posturing for the MoveOn peaceniks, not a law even intended to work.
Residents of San Francisco can't have handguns in SF. But they can have them in South SF, or Alameda, or wherever. People with half a brain will just leave them at a friend's house or a storage unit (I'll bet ranges in neighboring towns will make a few bucks off this) until this blows over.
Non-residents of San Francisco CAN have handguns in SF. Seriously.
There's no reason for anyone to surrender anything, and I doubt anyone will, except perhaps some idiot hippie who turns in her (or his, I guess) spouse's gun, in anger.
It's utterly bizarre, and frankly, I think it has always been leftie posturing for the MoveOn peaceniks, not a law even intended to work.
ElTacoGrande
Member
Non-residents with CCWs can pack in SF. Off-duty SF cops can't though. I wonder what this will do to CCW issuance in the city? I haven't thought through the implications. That may be another reason why the police opposed this. It could have some implications for forcing SF to start issuing a lot of permits would could backfire on them in a big way down the road (discriminatory issuance).ArmedBear said:
Clearly. That's the correct analysis of this nonsense.
wingnutx
Member
Collect or not, this will be another felony to tack on if you are ever found with a gun in any situation.
wingnutx
Member
ArmedBear said:
That describes liberalism in a nutshell.
I agree that it's not likely many residents will turn in their guns, or sell them. What they will do is hide them. Then it will be interesting to see is how anti-gun liberals react when that happens, and their feel-good law isn't working.
Left-wing moonbeam types are big on symbols and symbolism. To them guns are a symbolic representation of violence, so within their pea-sized brains to attack guns is to fight the concept of violence. Right now they are feeling all warm and fuzzy. But we shall see ...
Left-wing moonbeam types are big on symbols and symbolism. To them guns are a symbolic representation of violence, so within their pea-sized brains to attack guns is to fight the concept of violence. Right now they are feeling all warm and fuzzy. But we shall see ...
CAnnoneer
Member
ElTacoGrande said:
Excellent! Let the leftist fools pay with their checkbooks. It is called "stupidity tax". Sadly, the opponents of the ban will have to pay too...
DRZinn
Member
Guns? What guns? Those were stolen a year ago!
Hockeydude
Member
Can people in SF still have rifles? Or all arms were banned?
45Badger
Member
Land of fruits and nuts. My mother's cousins up in Novato (with children and grandchildren in SF) are probably toking up to celebrate their new-found safety.
Travis Lee
Member
Sure, tell the SF government to stick it....
If you live in SF are you going to keep your gun available to shoot a burglar?
Knowing the police will arrest you and the DA will prosecute you for posession of a gun even as he drops the gun charge on the burglar to get his testimony AGAINST you?
Even if this is struck down in California Supreme Court, would YOU want to live in San Francisco?
Any gun owner who still lives in San Francisco is a fool.
--Travis--
If you live in SF are you going to keep your gun available to shoot a burglar?
Knowing the police will arrest you and the DA will prosecute you for posession of a gun even as he drops the gun charge on the burglar to get his testimony AGAINST you?
Even if this is struck down in California Supreme Court, would YOU want to live in San Francisco?
Any gun owner who still lives in San Francisco is a fool.
--Travis--
If I read it correctly they can still have long guns , but they can't sell guns of any nature within the city, can't sell ammo , or manufacture guns.
So that would put all retail business of guns and ammo out of the business of selling those products, and make residents have to go somewhere else to purchase ammo or firearms of any nature. Only handguns will be outright banned.
As far as I remember there was only a single gun shop in the city, somewhere out in the Mission. It was a once famous gun shop owned by a renowned bullseye shooter (sorry, his name escapes me) and taken over by a bunch of Asians. Don't know if they still have the shop or if it closed. Wasn't in the best of neighborhoods.
You cannot buy any firearm component with the city limits...as far as I know.
You cannot buy any firearm component with the city limits...as far as I know.
QuickDraw
Member
I seem to recall that the grabbers tried to shut down
the Cow Palace gunshow.They failed.Well,maybe not
now.Is the Cow palace in S.F. or South S.F.?
QuickDraw
the Cow Palace gunshow.They failed.Well,maybe not
now.Is the Cow palace in S.F. or South S.F.?
QuickDraw
No_Brakes23
Member
Uh, simple solution...
Duh!
I don't support this stupid ban by any means, and as a handgun owner, I would have to move if I lived up there. I would find a safe legal place for my pistols until I could move.
But thinking you can't defend yourself without a handgun is just silly.
Those of you talking about "liberals" banning things are killing me.
Borachon
Member
Easiest way to get people to turn in their guns is to remind them what will happen if they are caught with them at a traffic stop. A simple speeding ticket will become a 20,000 dollar fine....or time in jail. 95% of people will then take their pistols and sell them in the best manner to get them out of town. Local towns, out in the country...whereever. But there will be some REAL bargins being posted on Gunbroker from San Francisco in the next few weeks. Check me if I'm wrong on this. Sucks to say this...but some of us who come to this board may benefit greatly when they start selling those guns at bargain basement prices. You can't have 300,000 plus guns hit the streets and expect every pawnshop in a 100 mile radius to absorb them all.
Some people won't know any better and they will end up turning in their guns to the police....thinking that they didn't have a choice to sell them out of state. But there won't be as many as people would think. Handling the volume of guns turned in won't be a problem.
After that, the 5% that will keep their guns will have to worry about being arrested on some other minor charge. Most will eventually dispose of their guns out of state or outside of town. Maybe 1% will keep theirs.
Some people won't know any better and they will end up turning in their guns to the police....thinking that they didn't have a choice to sell them out of state. But there won't be as many as people would think. Handling the volume of guns turned in won't be a problem.
After that, the 5% that will keep their guns will have to worry about being arrested on some other minor charge. Most will eventually dispose of their guns out of state or outside of town. Maybe 1% will keep theirs.
Borachon
Member
I think the exact opposite will happen. We gun owners are about to get a real education on what happens when the government steps up and says, "Play times over."
I think MOST people will turn in their guns. The outlaws, criminals, and assorted "gun nuts" (ie...people like us)
will be the only ones who keep their guns. I think it's much more likely people are going to SCRAMBLE to sell their guns before the time comes to turn them over to Big Papa G.Americans are mostly law abiding. I love this country for that reason. At the same time, I fear for this country for that reason.
Some laws just aren't Just.
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