Ol Spiffy Almost Got Mugged~!

[bogie]

As soon as he'd gone past 15' or so, he'd be seeing the muzzle, and hearing me say "You really want to go somewhere else."

Then I'd be on the phone...

Get a cell phone. He who calls 911 first wins.

 

[carebear]

Cordex,

The Blue's did get him reprogrammed IIRC. So you aren't really wrong.

 

[griz]

Thanks for sharing that Spiff. My first thought is I would have drawn at some point. So I asked myself when, and the best I could come up with was maybe when I told him to stop and he didn't. Maybe the fact that one of his hands was out of sight might have been enough of a reason, or maybe I would have done exactly the same as you did since there was no single moment that stands out as DRAW NOW. You have given me, and probably others, a lot to think about.

And after you have the OC, cell, baton, light, and God knows what else in hand, please take a picture so we can comment on technique. Maybe you could carry video equipment to give the police a better report?

 

[carebear]

bogie,

This was in the middle of an icy, crowded street. The crashing would have been legendary.

If anyone noticed at all.

Though the 911 calls would likely have been that a crazy, probably drunk, Native was pointing a gun at some guy.

I might have drawn but, then, I'm the "good citizen" poster child.

Tough call spiff, next time lead them to my house, I have a spare long gun for ya.

 

[Arc-Lite]

Sounds to me, they were trying to set you up, for a hit..seeing your hand was resting on something, made him question his move... seeing his hand on something is serious !!!! asking to touch your gun hand, is his advantage... the fact they kept up the attack, and followed you into your turf...should tell you, to keep an eye on your six, twelve, three and nine, 24/7. maybe take the same walk, with a few buds in the shadows. keep the question of all this, real clear and focused, look at the facts, their actions do not need to make sense. If they come back, it will be a totally new approach, this scum knows now, whats under your coat.

 

[spacemanspiff]

yeah i think i'll start risking getting hit by a car and walk along the main streets.

 

[kirkcdl]

If he could touch your gun hand,he COULD'VE taken your gun.Or at least tried.Just something to ponder...

 

[carebear]

It was through his coat. Disarm wasn't as much of an immediate risk as fouling up his draw or stabbing him.

 

[Nathaniel Firethorn]

Hey, Spiff, glad to hear it ended okay, if creepy.

Damn hard one from a legalistic standpoint. No deadly threat on the wierdo's part that would justify your using deadly force until he got too close for you to do anything about it.

Somehow, a smoother escalation through the force spectrum woulda been good. One alternative would be just to yell, "Keep back! I'm armed!" at about 25 feet, without pulling the Kimber. If he continues to approach, pull, but don't shoot unless he still continues to approach.


- pdmoderator

 

[spacemanspiff]

do you think announcing 'i'm armed!' is a good thing? i've never really given it much thought, figuring that if there was a threat that could be averted by saying i'm armed, its already to the point where displaying my arm is more advisable.

since my hand was on the grips, would have been a tough (but not impossible) disarming.

 

[NMshooter]

In my experience flashing them in the eyes is enough, even if the person is drunk.

But for those special situations...

http://www.quanticoarms.com/asp/ite...&CMNum=21&CMSNum=73&CMSN=SureFire Accessories

You could get something like that.

If you walk against traffic you are much harder to run over or mess with.

 

[TrybalRage]

I see alot of people saying "you let him get too close".

How close is too close? If I wanted to walk up to you and occupy the 6 inches in front of your face, and posed no threat, how do you react to that?
Wouldn't hosing the guy down with OC be assault?

I am not trying to get flamed, I am new to carrying and I honestly don't know how I would react in this situation. I definitely would not want someone that close to me, but I do not see a good way to handle someone who is just trying to be an ass...

How far do you keep backing away until you respond in some way?

 

[carebear]

If you walked up to Spiffy and got within 6 inches of his face you'd be bumping bellies and leaning in, so I think he could justifiably use a bit of force to move you back.

 

[Wildalaska]

WilddeadlyuseofbellyAlaska

 

[natedog]

Mexican robot on the Blue team.

Haha, I was thinking the same thing.

Nostros pensamos igual, claro?

 

[Chip Dixon]

Trybal-

If a hostile person got up in my face, and didn't back off when I asked him to... and I had no place to retreat to, then I would consider that assault with the potential to escalate into battery, or worse. This requires a response.

Otherwise, you're inviting disaster.

If someone is just trying to be a pompous ass, maybe they'll get a little civility scared into them as a result. It's not your "god given right as an american" to walk around assaulting people. That does not qualify as "freedom of speech." You are within your rights to respond to the situation with force if you feel threatened, have communicated your desire to leave, and retreat is not an option.

 

[Aikibiker]

I probably would have drawn after he followed me into the road. Especially if he had one of his hands hidden. That was a seriously dangerous position you got into.

If I had not drawn and the situation had progressed. As he approached I would have stuck my hand into his face not to strike but to put a physical barrier between him and my vital organs. It would also block his vision so I could draw my pistol to a retention position.

If I missed that opportunity and it progressed all the way to him closing the distance and reaching towards my hand that was on my holstered weapon I would have used my support hand to strike him in the head as I stepped around moving my hip with the gun on it farther away from him. I would have then backed away some and drawn to a retention position and probably shot him if he came toward me again.

I know this is harsh, but you need to hear it. You are alive because he let you live. He followed you and you did nothing. You ordered him to stay back and when he kept coming you did nothing. He chased you out into traffic and you put your hand on your gun, but did nothing with it. He closed and made physical contact with you and you did nothing to counter it. If this scummer had been a serious threat we would likely be reading a very touching obituary right now.

I am sure you have heard of the Tueller drill and the 21 foot rule. You could have become a statistic in support of that. Don't beleave me? Get an airsoft 1911 and using your carry holster, setup the scenario again. Now have a friend with a red marker try to get to you before you can hit him with a plastic BB. Start with your hand on the holstered weapon, have your partner make an honest attempt to get you including fouling your draw and tackling you.

That's enough lecturing from me. I am very glad you made it out of that situation alive and well. I hope you never see that dirtbag or his friends again, but if you do I hope it ends the way this one did. With everyone walking away.

 

[Aikibiker]

Now what is this about Mexican robots? I don't get the refference.

 

[carebear]

Red Versus Blue

An online cartoon using the HALO engine to animate.

Take the time to download starting with season one.

Beware, Art's Gramma wouldn't like the language.

 

[InfernoMDM]

This is a potential critique that no one else seemed to think of and it hit me like a wall of bricks :banghead: . You seemed to have massive target fixation. Not only on the guy closest which is ok to an exstent, but also on the out reached hand.

If I had seen a guy with a hand reached toward me and I couldnt have escaped, Id be more worried about the other hand. When you commented on the guy saying BAM my first thought was he was going to stab you with the hand behind his back and take your gun. I have the same problem with target fixation sometimes. Many people pay attention to the knife in a guys hand and get kicked in the balls, then subsequently stabbed.

Like everyone said you survived and that counts, but if I read your comments right I think this is something to learn from. Also it will stay with me as I progress through my day and beyond.

 

[OF]

good grief GRD! i aint Durga!

A flashlight, OC and a cell phone in your jacket pockets, gun on your belt, knife clipped to your pants. No problem!

- Gabe

 

[Nathaniel Firethorn]

do you think announcing 'i'm armed!' is a good thing? i've never really given it much thought, figuring that if there was a threat that could be averted by saying i'm armed, its already to the point where displaying my arm is more advisable.

If you've got the time to do it, it wouldn't hurt. Avoids your having to brandish if you don't have to. Better yet, first give him a command, while he's out of range: "STOP!" If that fails, you can embellish it later with other monosyllables or with a more practical demonstration.

If there's one thing that I'd say went seriously wrong, I'd say that's it. You never commanded the guy. You let him, not you, control the situation.

The situation you were in was (likely) a case of mistaken identity. You don't know what the real deal was. If it had been, say, an undercover cop, you might have gotten into even deeper doo-doo by brandishing. Not likely, of course, but Murphy's Law predicts that it will happen sometime.

Key here is what a "reasonable man" would do in this situation. A reasonable man would think that this guy was wrong, as you did. A reasonable man would not necessarily think that the guy was out to cause you grevious bodily injury.

The main point is to control the situation, so that you don't have to jump to deadly force immediately if you don't have a deadly threat. Legal aspects aside, it could prevent a genuine tragedy.

Wonder if there's any training available for this kind of stuff?


- pdmoderator

 

[Gwar]

Only thing I would have done different is keep my body bladed so my gun was away from him. Touch my left hand all you want... it's only there to take defensive wounds until my right one is ready to put you down.
As for people saying they'd draw on him and whatnot, what kind of duty to retreat do you have up there? You kept retreating, good for you - more articulation for the police report. "Well ossifer, when they had me cornered behind the Stop-n-Rob, I shouted for them to leave me alone, I kept yelling to him to leave me alone for the 3 blocks and 2 busy streets he followed me down. He reached out aggressively for me and I felt my life in fear since I knew 2 of his friends were close by and I'm such a fat, out of shape guy (no disrepect intended) and was already winded from the fast walking I did trying to get away from them, so he got DRTed when I ran out of real estate to retreat to."
Bad thing about bringing a gun out early is you can't back down from there.
My .02, YMMV, IMHO and all that other stuff apply.

 

[Andrew Rothman]

what i am glad for is that for some unknown reason, i decided not to put the headphones on while i walked home.

Folks who carry need to maintain a constant level of awareness that precludes shutting out the sounds of the world. Leave the headphones home.

 

[spacemanspiff]

no aikibiker, i do believe in the 21 foot rule, but unless a weapon is visible in the person encroaching on my 21 feet, my drawing down would be an escalation, not a de-escalation. i would be making the counter move that would not, in my opinion, be justifiable.

inferno, thats a good aspect to consider. with the adrenalin dump i was experiencing, i doubt i would have been able to pay attention to everything. i lost sight of the truck, kept my eye on traffic only enough for me to cross the street, and kept the guy in my line of vision except for turning to move further across the road.