Once a machinegun, always a .....

[Bob R]

I have heard this for quite a while now. In the eyes of the ATF, once a MG, alays a MG.

I have recently run across an M2 carbine for sale. The seller is saying that it has been "converted" to an M1. That is about all the info he has, no letters, nothing from ATF saying it is registered or ok to own as a semi only. It was mfg by General Motors.

Has anyone heard of a M2 to M1 conversion? Would this be considered a MG, or am I a little to paranoid about it. I would hate to have the ATF visit me, or worse. Such as cost me a bunch of money and send me on a vacation from my present life.

bob

 

[cane]

If it was originally a M-2, it's always going to be an M-2. Worst case scenario, it was never registered as a class III weapon. Personally I wouldn't have anything to do with it at ANY price.

 

[Bob R]

If it was originally a M-2, it's always going to be an M-2. Worst case scenario, it was never registered as a class III weapon. Personally I wouldn't have anything to do with it at ANY price

That is my feeling at present. So far I have resisted temptation to even take a look at it.

bob

 

[Carl N. Brown]

IF the receiver is marked "M2" it is a M2 machine gun. Forever.

If it is an M1 that had a M2 conversion kit (Kit, Carbine, T17, to allow
field conversion of M1 to M2) applied, and the receiver is marked "M1"
replacing the M2 hammer and disconnector with a M1 hammer and
the M2 trip lever and switch with a standard housing pin makes it an
M1 (do NOT keep the M2 parts).

The Fire Control Group parts should be replaced with standarrd M1 carbine
components. Actually, the Army Tech manual says it was permissable to use
the M2 sear, housing and slide as replacement parts on the M1 and M1A1,
but I would not keep any M2 fire control components JIC. Ditch the switch.
This advice is valid only if the receiver is marked "M1"--IF marked "M2" it is,
was and will remain an M2 machine gun in the eyes of the law. If not
properly registered before May 1986, it is contraband. The stripped receiver
is contraband if marked "M2" and not on the NFA registry.

The US Army actually released for civilian sale M1 to M2 carbines that
only had the trip lever and switch replaced with a standard housing pin.

Almost all M1 carbines that remained in inventory were rebuilt with M2
butt stock, the M magazine catch and round bolt.

 

[Bob R]

Thanks for the most informative post. I will go take a look at it and see what is is. Hopefully it is not morked M2 and I may end up with it.

bob

 

[Kramer Krazy]

1993-94

Back in 1993 and 1994, I picked up two of the M1 carbines that were being imported at the time.....and made up of miscellaneous parts. As the parts supply got short, it was not uncommon to find an M1 carbine with M2 components in it. Bolts, trigger housings, hammers, slides, and sears were not difficult to find in them. I once saw an M1 that even had the disconnect in it, and this is not part necessary for a carbine in an M1 configuration to function. As the above members state, if it states "M2" on the receiver, stay away from it. If it says "M1" on it and is a good deal, buy it. If there are any M2 parts in it and you feel uneasy about them, the M1 parts are easy to find at a gun show, and most venders will be willing to do an even swap, or at least a swap and a small denomination bill. If there is a disconnect, disconnect plunger and spring, selector switch and spring, and the actuator arm, you'll definitely want to remove those.....and throw them away.....as they are not M1 configuration operating components.

 

[hso]

"I have recently run across an M2 carbine for sale. The seller is saying that it has been "converted" to an M1. That is about all the info he has, no letters, nothing from ATF saying it is registered or ok to own as a semi only. It was mfg by General Motors."

Sounds odd considering the M2 was only built by Winchester and Inland. I think the seller may not know what they're talking about.

 

[ScottsGT]

One thing to also consider is that there is legislation in the works for an amnisty period for vets to register their war trophys that were not done the first time. Maybe a vet could clam it as his "trophy bring back" if this passes?

 

[whm1974]

Maybe a vet could clam it as his "trophy bring back" if this passes?

But the law in the works may not allow the vet to ever sell his "trophy", or even will it to his heirs.

If it is marked as an M2 I would stay away from it.

-Bill

 

[ctdonath]

The gov't is VERY precise, particular & peculiar about what it considers a "machinegun". I can't speak about the M2 specifically, but do know that the legalities can get surreal. The laws & regulations usually revolve around some distinct part of the weapon being deemed the "machinegun", with all other parts (barrel, stock, etc.) being indecisive/irrelevant; that key part may be the sear, receiver, sideplate, shoelace (kid you not), depends on the design - remove that part and replace it with a "semiauto" part, and the stigma goes with that removed part. Perhaps this M2 had it's "machinegun" part removed and replaced with a legal "semiauto" part.

 

[Ash]

Except that the L1A1, which has never been fully automatic, has the safety sear which allows it to be converted. Thus, it is a machine gun. No British L1A1 rifles could be imported as a result (or Aussie, etc). The reciever is the bad part in that case. The Yugoslav M76's that SOG sold a few years back, ditto. Never was a machine gun, but because it had that sear as original construction, blammo, machine gun (and the ATF paid many folks visits on that one). If that receiver is built into a machine gun, or had a sear capable of being converted to fully automatic fire, ever, then it will always be a machine gun. Think M14's cut into pieces, imported as scrap from Israel, and re-welded by MKS into semi-only rifles. The MKS rifles had NEVER been fully automatic, but they were made from the reconstituted pieces of M14's, so the ATF visited some more folks.

The M2 will always be a machine gun because that was how it was produced (otherwise it would have been an M1).

Ash

 

[Carl N. Brown]

to repeat

The difference between an M1 receiver and a M2 receiver is just the mark.
If it is marked M2 it was assembled and tested at the factory with a full
auto firecontrol group. It is legally a machine gun even if stripped to bare
receiver, no parts at all.

If it is an M1 that received a T17 makeover, replacing the M2 fire control
group with M1 parts makes it a legal M1 as long as you don't retain the
M2 firecontrol parts (especially trip lever, switch and disconnector). This
is the only "ex-machinegun" recognized by BATF as a legal semi-auto.

 

[Gordon Fink]

Sounds odd considering the M2 was only built by Winchester and Inland. I think the seller may not know what they’re talking about.

Inland was part of GM.

~G. Fink

 

[El Tejon]

Years ago, early 90s, right after Stockton, a gun dealer "gem" was this story was making the circuit of conversions from M2 to M1, attempting to make the gun seem more deadly (oooh, a machinegun, dangerous; lots of other examples the Mini-14 gambit, the AR nonsense, etc.). The dealers were trying to sell guns in the panic right before Clinton was elected.

Dealer nonsense gets passed along. Maybe this guy is passing dealer nonsense along?