Opening a gun shop -- UPDATE: Two Years In!

[kcshooter]

Insurance, heat, lights, mortgage, salaries, merchandise, and pay myself too? Nope, $20 isn't even close to enough

Yet somehow you've justified $0 as better???

If you think making nothing and alienating a customer will help you pay those bills, well, enjoy it while it lasts. It won't be long.

Your 250 round scenario is largely fantasy. Someone insisting to buy from Bud's is likely to get their ammo from Wal*Mart or some other discount source. Their holsters and the rest are likely to come from Internet sources where they don't even have to pay the tax.

You're wrong, and you've already condemed yourself to not making any further sale with him by your belief that he won't buy.

I've taken two family members in to buy guns this year alone. Between the two of them, they have bought over 300 rounds, 3 holsters, 1 belt, 7 magazines, ear protection, eye protection. Bet the profit from the accessories alone beats the profits from the sale 2 guns.

 

[Kynoch]

I'm confused. You said:
but then in the same post said:
Contradiction?

What you wouldn't be, by refusing to be competitive, is in business very long.



Now, the customer comes in for the quote, they are $100 more than Bud's. The customer tells them so, and asks if they can't come closer than that, how much would they do the transfer for. They then refuse to do the transfer, losing the customer's business.
The customer goes to the next closest gun shop, gets the transfer done there, then buys 250rds of ammo for their new gun. And a holster. And 4 extra magazines. And has their in-house gunsmith put sights on it.
Customer never returns to the other gun shop, nor recommends them to anyone else.

See what happens here?

Yes, you certainly are.

There is no contradiction. There is a huge difference between outright refusing to receive mail-order guns (not so uncommon around here) and having a customer choose not to use your services because they disagreed with a shop's fee.

Your 250 round scenario is largely fantasy. Someone insisting to buy from Bud's is likely to get their ammo from Wal*Mart or some other discount source. Their holsters and the rest are likely to come from Internet sources where they don't even have to pay the tax.

Again, if I ran a LGS, I would want it to be a LGS and not a drop-ship point for Bud's.

 

[Kynoch]

Insurance, heat, lights, mortgage, salaries, merchandise, and pay myself too? Nope, $20 isn't even close to enough.

Have you ever been in business?

You're setting up odd game that's simply fantasy. First, your notion that a LGS cannot get one's business without acting as a drop ship point for Bud's. That's simply ludicrous. Maybe that's all your capable of? Second the fantasy that everyone picking up their guns and paying their 20 bucks is also going to load-up a wheelbarrow with ammo, cleaning supplies, gun cases, etc. etc.

$20/gun? LOL!

 

[Upstater]

My last comment on this is no one ever said that the $20 transfer is the only business a shop is going to have, I have personally never had a gun transferred because by the time everything is added up (fees & taxes) lets say for that G17 it's only about $20 more to just buy it at the LGS (at least that's what I've seen in N.Y.)

 

[kcshooter]

$0/no gun? LOL!!

You're setting up odd game that's simply fantasy. First, your notion that a LGS cannot get one's business without acting as a drop ship point for Bud's. That's simply ludicrous. Maybe that's all your capable of? Second the fantasy that everyone picking up their guns and paying their 20 bucks is also going to load-up a wheelbarrow with ammo, cleaning supplies, gun cases, etc. etc.

No, what I'm setting up is that while you will sell many guns from inventory, when someone has a deal that you can't beat, it's foolish to pass up on the business you can get because you are personally offended that he can save himself a sum of money on the same product. He'll find someone else, so you lose business and your competition gains business. Not the way I run the business I work for.
And if you think those who buy guns don't buy things to go with them, well, I'm not the one who's dealing in fantasy.



This is the hard reality of the business.
Bud's is here to stay.
Adapt, or perish. Your choice.

 

[larryh1108]

Upstater, perfect example of how the system works. Because some people don't do it that way, they feel everyone is the same way. I'm sure not everyone buys after they pick up their transfer but many do and that pays for the lost profits. Also, the guy who didn't buy today just may be back because he liked the service and how he was treated and maybe saw something that interested him. Some people have to save to buy more expensive items. Short-sighted dealers get what they deserve, nothing.

This thread, alone, shows why some shops charge $20 and others couldn't be bothered. Some businesses go after business and others wait for business to come to them. It must be nice to be able to afford to wait for people to discover how wonderful you are. I bet the guys who charge $75 for transfers also spend $1000 a week to run ads. The $20 transfer guys have people walk into their door and hands them $20 for paperwork. If he's treated well he just may buy some other items. Treat him like you are doing him a favor or you couldn't be bothered and guess what? He'll leave and not come back.

Getting customers into your business is the hardest and most expensive thing you pay for. You can spend thousands of dollars on ads that expire in a week or you can offer a service that is very much in demand and they eagerly walk into your establishment and hand you money. Gee, i wonder which is more cost effective? Of course, some people feel that they are so special that all they have to do is hang up the shingle and the world will flow to thru their doors.

If you've ever run a business you know advertising is a necessary evil. You complain about the mooch who hands you $20 to transfer a gun from Bud's and then you hand $1000 to the ad agency to run your ads for the next 2 weeks. Tell me, how much did you have to sell to have $1000 in profits and how much did you have to sell to collect $20 for 20 minutes of paperwork? Penny wise and dollar foolish.

 

[jman74]

There's a couple stores around here that will take the time to some you holsters with YOUR gun. Yes you can buy the same holster online cheaper, but these places sell a ton of holsters. Simply because you know it works when you leave.

 

[gym]

A lot of this is subjective. If you are a distributer for a gun company, you pay less, but must purchase a large amount of guns. So I have been told a Kimber distributer has to buy 10 grand minimum order, True or false, it seems realistic. Now you have a dozen or so manufacturers that you want to stock, that's a hundred thousand order for your minimum, on top of the manditory amount they require you to stock, as mentioned above 50 grand for one company alone. At this rate, you have laid out a half million dollars on just pistols,without rifles shotguns clothing, holsters ammo etc. you have to go through this with each company you want to be a distributer for? If that stands to be true you sure have to get pissed off when someone comes in with a transfer for a Kimber for 10 dollars less than you sell it for.I don't see the joy in running this kind of business.
I see that kid from going quiet who has a $150 a month overhead, "we discussed this when I bought a glock from him when he opened". As I said he mabe had 12-18 guns period, but he was selling them for less than anyone else and advertising on FSN. Florida shooters network, guys were driving from Miami to save 25-35 dollars on a gun, "kind of silly with gas where it is now" but 450 -475 for a G26,27, and $500 for a G19, 2 years ago. that was, I thought a good price. Then my Doctor goes to that police supply store with a LEO buddy and gets a 19 for $425. I almost fell over.I really started to wonder how much they were paying if they sold it to him for $425.00, "they are known for their prices", but I believe you must be LEO to get them. My guess is another patient was. So how many prices does Glock have. If down in Miami they go for $600, and up here in Merritt, $475, for the same gun.It seems unfair for the mom nd pop shop to even compete. Then you have "shoot straight" he is the man as far as the vendors say at the shows, 6 stores or 7. and 3 or 4 ranges. He undercuts everyone, vendors said he will lose money on a gun justto keep it from going to somone else. I paid 250 for an lcp, 3 yrs ago when they were hot. he dropped 15 dollars below the closest competitor. So how do you make any money in that business going midsized. it appears either you mmust stay small and sell 10-20 guns a week "hopefully" with a 20-30 dollar profit per gun, or go huge, and sink 3 million into a place and cross your fingers.
On a recent trip to half a dozen gun stores in south FL, from Boynton to vero. I saw no great deals. Even at shoot straight there were no $259 taurus 357 magnums like at the gun show he sold the month before, rather the prices were inflated above most local stores. Kimber cdp's for $1400, Trp's for almost 2 grand. I left everyone, with nothing, not even a box of ammo. And there were no clients during the week. 3 days and I saw no more than a handfull of people window shopping or picking up guns they ordered. It seems like it's almost as bad as the Gym business was 10-15 years ago. It costs these guys 50 grand or more just to keep the doors open, that's why they do the shows. Otherwise who needs that aggravation on your weekend. The guy is on a treadway with 90 tables just for him. I think without the shows they would not stay open. they drop their drawers and go back to charging 20-30% more on Monday.
It's a heck of a way to earn a buck.I see the money in class 3 stuff, if you can contain the market in your area. They only need to sell a few pieces a week. Again this kid from Melbourne, went right to supressors and auto. He even pays the tax stamp, "i'm sure you are paying it in the price". but at 800 bucks a can, how much can they cost him? I think small is the only way to go, and specific.People with bucks will always want the best, it's like that with everything. They want a 3000 dollar sig including a can on it. Why? because they can. You sell 2or 3 of those a week and you make 6 figures and do it without killing yourself.
But a big store selling a thousand items competitivelly, is almost impossible.

 

[oneounceload]

I see that kid from going quiet who has a $150 a month overhead, "we discussed this when I bought a glock from him when he opened". As I said he mabe had 12-18 guns period, but he was selling them for less than anyone else and advertising on FSN. Florida shooters network, guys were driving from Miami to save 25-35 dollars on a gun, "kind of silly with gas where it is now" but 450 -475 for a G26,27, and $500 for a G19, 2 years ago. that was, I thought a good price. Then my Doctor goes to that police supply store with a LEO buddy and gets a 19 for $425. I almost fell over.I really started to wonder how much they were paying if they sold it to him for $425.00, "they are known for their prices", but I believe you must be LEO to get them. My guess is another patient was. So how many prices does Glock have. If down in Miami they go for $600, and up here in Merritt, $475, for the same gun.It seems unfair for the mom nd pop shop to even compete.

Glock has a MULTIPLE pricing level and you do not know if that shops LEO pricing had Glock subsidies or not

NYPD, when first buying Glocks, bought them for $76/each - and Gaston made 50% profit on those - so there is a LOT of room for volume sellers to make a decent profit

 

[drsfmd]

Have you ever been in business?

You're setting up odd game that's simply fantasy. First, your notion that a LGS cannot get one's business without acting as a drop ship point for Bud's. That's simply ludicrous. Maybe that's all your capable of? Second the fantasy that everyone picking up their guns and paying their 20 bucks is also going to load-up a wheelbarrow with ammo, cleaning supplies, gun cases, etc. etc.

$20/gun? LOL!

You quoted me here, but I don't think you intended to.

As far as Oneounceload's comment directly above this one... I don't know everything about Glock pricing structures, but I can say for sure that they do, at least at some dealer levels, have a reimbursement program, but the Dr. gym mentioned should not have been able to get that deal... it's only supposed to go to LEO's.

 

[Sam1911]

Seems we have a little bit of the dichotomy of the extremes going on here.

I absolutely can understand why a shop will be less than happy to take a transfer at a (let's say) $30 transfer fee when they could have gotten that same gun for their customer for the same price, or maybe up to 5% more than what he paid, out of their own inventory and made more than the $30 on it. That's frustrating, and I think the dealer has every reason to bring that to the customer's attention and say, "Look, give me a chance to match prices or come close." I hear over and again that most of us are perfectly willing to pay an extra $25 or even $50, when it's all said and done, to make the sale with our local dealer.

But if the customer is looking at spending $100 or $150 more with you, you're really not even competing any more. He's got a great deal and you simply cannot begrudge him that he doesn't want to spend the week's grocery bill -- EXTRA -- just to take the one you've got in stock.

And what? The claim seems to be that $20-$30 just isn't near enough. But why? The work required is pretty similar to the work required to handle guns in your inventory. Not exactly the same, but pretty close. (Yes, I know there are some risks and annoyances.) And your markup on a $550 Glock is 8-12%, so $44-66. So you're making $24-$33 less on that sale than you would have if the guy bought it from you outright. But you're also making $20-$30 MORE than if the guy didn't deal with you at all. And if he's found a deal that beat your best price by $100, that's the the choice you've got. Take the $20-$30 or take nothing.

Now, if you've got enough business coming in the door that you really don't NEED that guy -- if you are literally pausing from making $44-$66 profit sales to take a $20-$30 transfer request -- well that doesn't make business sense. But if you've got 2 minutes here and 5 minutes there of slack time during the day to handle his logging and paperwork, it really does seem to come down to, "Is that money I made or money I let go?"

I certainly may not have the complete picture, but I'm trying to see it clearly.

 

[drsfmd]

Sam- will you go to work tomorrow and agree to a 60% pay cut because there's someone in India or China willing to do the job for less? I doubt it.

Moreover, dealers who ARE willing to cut their throats and accept underpriced transfers are free to do so, to their own detriment. As already pointed out, dealers spend thousands, or tens of thousands for dealerships and discounts... with the intention of making that money back on their own product, not facilitating sales for Bud's, etc.

My personal opinion on transfers is that for collectables, and guns a dealer can't get, no problem. That's $20 (or whatever) is free money. Using your example... if I've got it in the case, and you want to transfer one in because you can get it cheaper somewhere else, no thanks... not interested. Buy it from the LGS or try to find someone else willing to do that transfer.

Of course, I also have the same attitude about sticker price. Pay the sticker price or spend your gas money driving to another shop somewhere else to try to save a few bucks. The dickering happens on the value of the tradein, not on the sticker price.

 

[larryh1108]

I agree with you, Sam. Any profit is better than no profit and you still get a chance to make money on extras. It also gives you the opportunity to tell the customer that if he came to you first you may have been able to get close after the shipping and fees and transfer. You can also let the customer know that they can shoot their new purchase at the range because they get 1 hr of free range time with a gun purchase from your store. Yes, you may be put off because you didn't get the sale but a good salesperson will turn the chance to meet a customer one-on-one in your store to future business. You have a captive audience in your store and you want to piss him off because your feelings are hurt? That tells me you need to move out of customer service and move into support. You get one chance to make a first impression.

 

[fallout mike]

Drsfmd, so when you buy a car you pay sticker price with no questions asked?

 

[J_McLeod]

I didn't read all seven pages and am just responding to the OP.

Before I started reloading, what really got me to the LGS was ammo. I went to the store with the best deals on ammo, and while I was there I'd take a look around at what was behind the counter. Between myself and a friend I can think of at 4 four of our guns were bought because we looked around while buying ammo.

Now I'm after reloading supplies. It helps to have someone that knows about them. I've only been loading for a year, so I've asked about stuff at the store only to be told that the person that reloads wasn't in at the time.

 

[Kynoch]

And MAYBE the shop that drsfmd works in IS one of those, and from previous posts on other threads I suspect that to be true - but MOST small time shops are not doing that volume, not even half.

Most of these folks do not realize, that to become a "Master Dealer" for most brands requires a substantial investment - usually 25-50K and that means you also have to buy the "dogs" that don't sell well besides the real popular ones - and depending on your volume, your ability to get those popular ones can be real dicey. Even Bud's shows most popular guns as "out of stock" because the makers are doing what they can, but they also take care of their main distributors first, as well they should

Do you really think Bud's moves fewer guns than their "main distributors?"

 

[Kynoch]

Those who have never owned a business with employees see it one way; those who have/had owned a small business with employees know better - there are a LOT more costs involved that these folks who work for someone who pays them do not realize.

It seems here neither side will convince the other - unless someone has something better to add, perhaps it is better closed

What some people don't seem to get is there is a difference between owning and operating a LGS and a licensed drop ship point for Bud's and Able Ammo.

Some just can't see past that 20 bucks in hand. They don't realize what sort of reputation that it build when one person buys a G17 off the floor and another buys one from Bud's and has it drop shipped to the LGS and they later compare prices. They don't realize that once word gets around sales from inventory will cease in favor of mail order with a 20 buck margin. Worst of all though, continue to accept shipments from places like Bud's and you ultimately put yourself and the LGSs down the street out of business.

 

[Kynoch]

Sam- will you go to work tomorrow and agree to a 60% pay cut because there's someone in India or China willing to do the job for less? I doubt it.

Moreover, dealers who ARE willing to cut their throats and accept underpriced transfers are free to do so, to their own detriment. As already pointed out, dealers spend thousands, or tens of thousands for dealerships and discounts... with the intention of making that money back on their own product, not facilitating sales for Bud's, etc.

My personal opinion on transfers is that for collectables, and guns a dealer can't get, no problem. That's $20 (or whatever) is free money. Using your example... if I've got it in the case, and you want to transfer one in because you can get it cheaper somewhere else, no thanks... not interested. Buy it from the LGS or try to find someone else willing to do that transfer.

Of course, I also have the same attitude about sticker price. Pay the sticker price or spend your gas money driving to another shop somewhere else to try to save a few bucks. The dickering happens on the value of the tradein, not on the sticker price.

It would be a fairly powerful thing is all LGS's formed a confederation where they refused to act as drop ship points for places like Bud's and Able Ammo.

The playing field would be largely leveled and the LGSs could fit it out with the big box shops...

 

[Kynoch]

Seems we have a little bit of the dichotomy of the extremes going on here.

I absolutely can understand why a shop will be less than happy to take a transfer at a (let's say) $30 transfer fee when they could have gotten that same gun for their customer for the same price, or maybe up to 5% more than what he paid, out of their own inventory and made more than the $30 on it. That's frustrating, and I think the dealer has every reason to bring that to the customer's attention and say, "Look, give me a chance to match prices or come close." I hear over and again that most of us are perfectly willing to pay an extra $25 or even $50, when it's all said and done, to make the sale with our local dealer.

Why not simply charge them a fee that equals what your profit would have been on a pre-paid special order?

But if the customer is looking at spending $100 or $150 more with you, you're really not even competing any more. He's got a great deal and you simply cannot begrudge him that he doesn't want to spend the week's grocery bill -- EXTRA -- just to take the one you've got in stock.

BUT IF! That's not always the case. In fact I would say that's often NOT the case. Also whose to say they won't spend the same amount if they are charged a reasonable fee based on what your expected profit would have been for a prepaid special order?

And what? The claim seems to be that $20-$30 just isn't near enough. But why? The work required is pretty similar to the work required to handle guns in your inventory. Not exactly the same, but pretty close. (Yes, I know there are some risks and annoyances.) And your markup on a $550 Glock is 8-12%, so $44-66. So you're making $24-$33 less on that sale than you would have if the guy bought it from you outright. But you're also making $20-$30 MORE than if the guy didn't deal with you at all. And if he's found a deal that beat your best price by $100, that's the the choice you've got. Take the $20-$30 or take nothing.

Why do you suggest it's zero sum -- "Take the $20-$30 or take nothing."? Why wouldn't you build a relationship with your customers so they come to you first to buy a G17 and not to you to act as a drop ship point for Bud's? You're also not factoring in the lost of revenue once word gets around that your LGS is really a licensed shipping point for Bud's.

Now, if you've got enough business coming in the door that you really don't NEED that guy -- if you are literally pausing from making $44-$66 profit sales to take a $20-$30 transfer request -- well that doesn't make business sense. But if you've got 2 minutes here and 5 minutes there of slack time during the day to handle his logging and paperwork, it really does seem to come down to, "Is that money I made or money I let go?"

See above.

I certainly may not have the complete picture, but I'm trying to see it clearly.

Hmmm.

 

[Kynoch]

Glock has a MULTIPLE pricing level and you do not know if that shops LEO pricing had Glock subsidies or not

NYPD, when first buying Glocks, bought them for $76/each - and Gaston made 50% profit on those - so there is a LOT of room for volume sellers to make a decent profit

Please provide proof that Glock made a 50% margin at that sales price. I don't dispute the price. I'm sure he would have given them away for the tremendous sales they provided but I seriously doubt the cost to produce/sell a Glock is $38.00/unit.

FWIW, it wasn't it NYPD that bought the first Glocks in NYPD. It was Transit or Harbor or someone else other than the NYPD.

 

[YankeeFlyr]

Hire people who know what they're talking about.

Not internet commandos; like experienced, real-deal folks with practical experience, as opposed to wishful thinking...

 

[Scott Farkus]

Just want to interject here to make a quick point.

There is a lot of talk about the "big box" stores, and how the local LGS can't compete with them.

I assume when we're talking about "big box" stores in relation to guns, we're talking about Wal Mart, Cabela's, Dick's, Bass Pro, and Gander Mountain. Maybe Academy. There are probably some others that we don't see in Texas that I'm not familiar with.

Well, I've never been in a Wal Mart that had more than maybe 6 rifles/shotguns for sale, one of which is the ubiquitous Ruger 10/22 in standard configuration, and never handguns. I didn't check prices but I would expect them to be competitive since it's Wal Mart and that's what they do. So OK, on the half dozen most widely distributed long guns in the country, Wal Mart probably has you beat. That leaves a huge opportunity to go after the higher end, "exotic", or black rifle market, like CZ's or Saigas or stainless barrel 10/22's.

Dick's is not much better - maybe 20-30 long guns, mostly standard stuff, and no handguns in the stores here. The prices that I've seen are nothing to write home about. Actually, not much less than MSRP from what I recall. I'm sure they do sales and promotions on occasion, but day-to-day, I don't see Dick's being price beaters.

Cabela's has a good selection but their prices are notoriously a joke. Again, you might get lucky and find a sale or promotion, but I've yet to walk out of a Cabela's without scratching my head wondering how in the world they sell anything at those prices.

We don't have Bass Pro or Gander Mountain where I live (Austin, TX) so I don't have personal knowledge of their pricing. But I've read similar high-pricing stories on the net, particularly about Gander Mountain.

Academy is pretty good. Selection is OK, not great, but OK, and they sell handguns. Prices are good on most things, and they usually have a good ammo selection. Of all the so-called "big box" stores, this is the one I'd worry about the most if I had an LGS.

My point is that by and large, the "big box" stores don't seem to me to be undercutting anybody on price, and certainly not to the point that makes it impossible for an LGS to compete.

What they do have, though, are store hours that actually enable working customers to visit the store.

Am I missing something?

 

[Sam1911]

Sam- will you go to work tomorrow and agree to a 60% pay cut because there's someone in India or China willing to do the job for less? I doubt it.

Will I agree to it? Not willingly. But if I had my druthers they'd pay 60% MORE. I don't get to decide. The market will be whatever it will be. If the market now says that the service I provide can be had at 60% less, I'm going to have to either figure out how to compete with that new price level and still survive, or close my doors and do something else for a living. No one owes us the price we want to charge. We either provide a product/service they need at the best price they can get, or we don't. If we don't, we either have to convince them they should pay our price anyway scrutiny or we'll have to compete. That's the nature of capitalism and competition. And it is a scary thing for a business owner, believe me I know!

Moreover, dealers who ARE willing to cut their throats and accept underpriced transfers are free to do so, to their own detriment. As already pointed out, dealers spend thousands, or tens of thousands for dealerships and discounts... with the intention of making that money back on their own product, not facilitating sales for Bud's, etc.

Certainly. Their choices will indeed make the difference in whether they survive or fail.

In the end, the market will adjust. You may adjust with it, or go into some other market. Holding back the tide doesn't usually work well, at least in the long run. It may be that the old way of doing the gun business is going away. That would be a little sad, and a little good, too.

My personal opinion on transfers is that for collectables, and guns a dealer can't get, no problem. That's $20 (or whatever) is free money.

Certainly agreed there!

Using your example... if I've got it in the case, and you want to transfer one in because you can get it cheaper somewhere else, no thanks... not interested. Buy it from the LGS or try to find someone else willing to do that transfer.

I can understand why you say that -- and again, if the price in the end is pretty close maybe you've got a point to make with the customer. But, once more, if the guy has found a deal that beats anything you could possibly do by a significant percentage -- I can certainly see why if you turn him away telling him, "Buy it from me at my high price or go away," he's going to have a really poor opinion of you and your establishment.

[Just as a separate thought experiment: What if the guy comes to you and says, "My buddy in TX wants to sell me his Glock for $300. Will you do the transfer?" You'd do that for him, of course. But he's not paying your markup on that gun and didn't buy it from you. What's the difference in your opinion?]

 

[Sam1911]

It would be a fairly powerful thing is all LGS's formed a confederation where they refused to act as drop ship points for places like Bud's and Able Ammo.

Hmmmm, an artificial market control! That usually ends well...

 

[Bubba613]

Wow just as I predicted. All you need for a successful store is a million dollars worth of merchandise, lower prices than the lowest one on the internet, free gunsmithing, free transfers, clean and well lit, dont mind that people bring their lunch in and eat it, and free coffee.

Anyway, on transfers: when I started I charged $20, which was the lowest price in town. All I got were price customers. They were there because they only wanted to pay the lowest price for anything. Since I was 50 cents higher on Speer Lawman vs WalMarts White Box they wouldn't buy any. I never sold a single accessory, cleaning kit or supply or box of ammo to those customers.
I decided I felt like I was getting raped with every transfer and I wouldn't stand for it anymore. I raised prices to $40. I do many fewer transfers but the ones I do result also in sales of ammo and accessories, and often repeat business for guns. And I'm happy to do the transfer because the amount I make is almost as much as I would on a new gun.
The big advantage a place like Bud's has is that the customer can hike the sales tax in his home state. In TN that's 9.25%, which adds up quick on a $500 gun. I can easily beat Bud's prices and if they were required to collect sales tax, or I were required to collect it on the transfer, people would never buy from Bud's.