Patriot Act fails to get votes for time being..

[beerslurpy]

And the New York Times sat on the NSA story for a whole year.
It's all in the timing.

AFS

And I am grateful that they did. I hope this filibuster continues and gains momentum.

 

[roo_ster]

And I am grateful that they did. I hope this filibuster continues and gains momentum.

Sometimes, especially with slime-trail-leaving types like Teddy "Splash" Kennedy, they do the right thing for the wrong reason.

You take your victories where you can from whence you can.

 

[saltydog]

Stupid people shouldn't breed.
Tom

Hey Tom I agree. Some of the Fox News Idiots don't need to breed either!

 

[FNFiveSeven]

uhhh

1) Most people here hate the Patriot act

2) Most people here voted for Bush and/or are registered Republicans

3) Bush and most Republicans support the Patriot act.

[looney tunes voice]IT JUST DON'T ADD UP![/looney tunes voice]

Anybody here who voted for Bush and hates the Patriot act needs to do some serious thinking. WHAT in THE HELL were you thinking?

they do the right thing for the wrong reason

Huh? So wait, let me see if I've got this straight: when a Republican votes for the Patriot act, what are they doing? The wrong thing for the right reason?!! Wow, that makes me feel a whole lot better. Newsflash! Politicians do everything for one reason and one reason only... VOTES. And if you voted for Bush, then you voted for the Patriot act. End of story. Don't like the way that makes you feel? Next election, try growing a pair and voting for who you actually support, instead of joining the sheep like a party stooge.

 

[jsalcedo]

Don't like the way that makes you feel? Next election, try growing a pair and voting for who you actually support, instead of joining the sheep like a party stooge.

Then we would have Kerry and every possible gun ban he could sign.

Something really drastic will have to happen for a third party to have a chance like our current parties being caught in league with satan, aliens and the French.

 

[Ezekiel]

AK's for everyone and a chicken in every pot!

WHAT in THE HELL were you thinking?

Single issue (guns) voters. Potentially incredibly short-sighted.

There are folks who would readily vote in a trained monkey if promised free access to Uzi's. Oh, wait... :banghead:

 

[Liberty.45ACP]

Anybody here who voted for Bush and hates the Patriot act needs to do some serious thinking. WHAT in THE HELL were you thinking?

That in spite of it all, we would be worse off still with that kerry creature.

 

[dasmi]

Anybody here who voted for Bush and hates the Patriot act needs to do some serious thinking. WHAT in THE HELL were you thinking?

That he did an OK job during his first term. That I didn't want Kerry to be my president.
But, I have done some serious thinking, and I'll never vote for another Bush-style republican again. I'll probably never vote Republican again, actually. Or Democrat.

 

[cropcirclewalker]

Something really drastic will have to happen for a third party to have a chance like our current parties being caught in league with satan, aliens and the French.

Kerry looks French.

So that's 2 1/2 outa 3.

Good enough?

 

[c_yeager]

Sometimes, especially with slime-trail-leaving types like Teddy "Splash" Kennedy, they do the right thing for the wrong reason.

You take your victories where you can from whence you can.

That pretty much sums up my feelings on the matter.

Of course we did learn something from this. The Republicans are quite willing to sell our freedom right down the crapper for their own political gain. Of course, we already know this about the Democrats. Looks like its time for some more parties.

 

[Camp David]

The Republicans are quite willing to sell our freedom right down the crapper for their own political gain...

Explain the comment above "their own political gain" inherent in the Patriot Act? Love to hear this...

...unless defending freedom and assuring national security is seen by you as political gain?

 

[dasmi]

...unless defending freedom and

Please explain how wiretaps, on American citizens, by the NSA, without a court order, defend freedom.

 

[Biker]

Please explain how wiretaps, on American citizens, by the NSA, without a court order, defend freedom.

What he said.
Biker

 

[FNFiveSeven]

That in spite of it all, we would be worse off still with that kerry creature.

Perhaps, but this statement is based on a false assumption: that not voting for Bush is a vote for Kerry. Folks, only one thing is a vote for Kerry, and that's voting for Kerry. Breaking the cycle starts with you... you don't have to vote for a giant ****** or a turd sandwich.

...unless defending freedom and assuring national security is seen by you as political gain?

hmmm... maybe it's because... let's see... the Patriot act does nothing for national security and is the biggest blow to freedom penned to paper in the last 50 years? Wait, let me guess, you have nothing to hide, right? It's a small price to pay for a little security, right? Well, good 'ol Ben Franklin's got something to tell you:

They that can give up essential liberty for a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety

 

[dasmi]

Blackrazor, as long as we're quoting important Americans...

"The only way Governments can induce citizens to surrender their rights is convincing them that by doing so, they will gain a measure of safety in exchange" -Thomas Jefferson

 

[Camp David]

Please explain how wiretaps, on American citizens, by the NSA, without a court order, defend freedom.

You assume they are being conducted on American citizens and you assume they are being done on ordinary folks without guilt. Both are probably wrong assumptions... These wiretaps are being conducted on enemies of the state -- terror cells and members -- that may be a public danger. Would you rather the President reacted after the fact (after the bombing) or proactively (stopping the bombing). Your choice.

 

[Tomcat1066]

And Camp David has a comeback for the Franklin quote, and it will deal with his opinion as to what the dead think about something.

And he seems to forget that some of us don't agree with that though process.

A warrant isn't hard to get, especially when there is a judge that handles intelligence cases specifically. I would assume that this judge does this because they know how to be discrete, as well as quick. When dealing with a threat to people's lives, I really believe you should be quick as possible, but you HAVE to follow the Constitution.

It's the law of the land that applies to ALL!

Tom

 

[Tomcat1066]

You assume they are being conducted on American citizens and you assume they are being done on ordinary folks without guilt. Both are probably wrong assumptions... These wiretaps are being conducted on enemies of the state -- terror cells and members -- that may be a public danger. Would you rather the President reacted after the fact (after the bombing) or proactively (stopping the bombing). Your choice.

I thought we were just asking for them to get warrants to conduct the wiretaps. I guess we're just asking to much then

Tom

 

[Camp David]

A warrant isn't hard to get

If the wiretap is done with or without a warrant, the subject will not know it. So what is the real difference? Are your civil liberties reaffirmed if a judge oks a wire tap?

 

[dasmi]

You assume they are being conducted on American citizens and you assume they are being done on ordinary folks without guilt. Both are probably wrong assumptions... These wiretaps are being conducted on enemies of the state -- terror cells and members -- that may be a public danger. Would you rather the President reacted after the fact (after the bombing) or proactively (stopping the bombing). Your choice.

So, in America, the Government can decide someone is guilty without a trial?
Guilty until proven innocent? Hmm. Ok then.

 

[Tomcat1066]

uhhhh yes!

It shows that the protections against unreasonable search and siezure were followed. THAT is what I've been talking about. Not disallowing wiretaps, but requiring a simple piece of paper as a protection of MY RIGHTS as a citizen of the United States.

Tom

 

[rick_reno]

Please explain how wiretaps, on American citizens, by the NSA, without a court order, defend freedom.

That's easy. It's the "We had to burn the village to save it" logic. Once you've bought it into - and apparently Camp David has - you can buy into any dribble that happens to emit from the Presidents mouth.

How anyone can even use the terms "liberty" and "freedom" in the context of the Patriot Act is beyond me, yet Bush has managed to use these and other patriotic phases many times in describing it.

Read the book "1776" by David McCullough and you'll get first hand accounts of what brave men and women were willing to sacrifice for the freedoms we enjoy today - the very freedoms that these eilte statists are eager to remove with a simple swipe of the pen. It's worse than disgusting - it's treason.

 

[Camp David]

So, in America, the Government can decide someone is guilty without a trial?

Your e-mail and internet activity is being recorded by a myriad devices (private companies do this). Does that mean you are guilty? No. Your likeness is recorded by digital film throughout the nation by a myriad digital cameras. Does this mean you are guilty? No. Then why are you so alarmed that perhaps your audio telephone calls might be recorded? You certainly don't seem to mind your video and internet communications are recorded!

Drive through an intersection today with your car? Chances are you were recorded!

 

[dasmi]

Camp David, you didn't actually address what I said. Try again.
And yes, I do have a problem with all the recording going on.

 

[Tomcat1066]

Tell you what Camp David. When the America you are calling for shows up, you can have it.

I'll fight against THAT America with every breath in my body.

Tom