Philly, PA, man shoots another during movie (was he licensed to carry?)

[grimjaw]

Original story link here:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/12/27/movie.shooting/index.html

(CNN) -- A man angry that a family was talking during a movie threw popcorn at the son and then shot the father in the arm, according to police in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.
James Joseph Cialella was charged with attempted murder, aggravated assault and weapons charges.

James Joseph Cialella was charged with attempted murder, aggravated assault and weapons charges.

James Joseph Cialella, 29, was charged with attempted murder, aggravated assault and weapons violations, a police report said.

Cialella told the family sitting in front of him in the theater on Christmas Day to be quiet, police said.

An argument ensued while others at the Riverview Movie Theatre watched "The Curious Case of Benjamin Button," starring Brad Pitt and Cate Blanchett, The Philadelphia Inquirer reported.

Cialella then approached the family from the left side of the aisle and shot the father, who was not identified, as he was standing between Cialella and his family, according to the police report.

The victim was taken to Jefferson Hospital with a gunshot wound to his left arm, police said.

Cialella was carrying a Kel-Tec .380-caliber handgun clipped inside his sweatpants, police said. He was arrested and taken into custody.

Given that we've been arguing about CPLs being public record, can anyone find out if this guy has a license to carry?

Moral of story: carrying + sweatpants = bad mojo.

jm

 

[sherman123]

I don't know where to look his name up at but I'd imagine if he was actually licensed the anti-gun media would've been all over that part of the story. That and he was charged with weapons violations.

 

[grimjaw]

I don't want to start the speculation merry-go-round. I don't know PA law. The weapons violation could have been carrying in a place where it was prohibited, for instance, if the theater had a sign posted, etc.

jm

 

[General Geoff]

Theaters aren't a prohibited place in Pennsylvania, and "no guns" signs carry no legal weight insofar as they can't charge you with a weapons violation for disregarding them; the most they can do is ask you to leave if they notice you're carrying, and if you don't leave, you can be charged with trespassing.

So basically that means he didn't have an LTCF (which is required to carry concealed in PA). No other weapons charges could apply, unless it was a stolen gun (which may also be true).

 

[HeavenlySword]

My conspiracy meter is skyrocketing!

 

[Starship1st]

Anyone shoots a guy in a theater because the kid was talking has mental problems and should never had a gun to start with. These idiots help feed the anti gun liberals to have an excuse to ban guns from law abiding citizens.

 

[rscalzo]

weapons violation

Use of a weapon in an illegal manner. That is NJ law. Legality of carry is immaterial. Many state laws are basically the same.

 

[nwilliams]

Man there is almost nothing I hate more than people talking in a movie theater during a film. I think the only thing worse are people talking on cell phones during the film. All the same shooting those kinds of people is probably not the smartest option available

 

[Ky Larry]

As someone once told me: You can have a gun. Or you can have a temper. You can't have both.

 

[Glockman17366]

Per later reports, there was a weapons charge (along with attempted murder and assult). The weapons charge indicates he wasn't licensed to carry...but that's a supposition on my part.

 

[Grey_Mana]

Am I the only one who worries about being garroted at the movie theater? That's why I don't talk during the movies.

 

[HadEmAll]

"As someone once told me: You can have a gun. Or you can have a temper. You can't have both."

That's beautiful, Larry. And scarily true.

 

[wyocarp]

Let's not forget that he warned the family to be quiet before he shot the father in the arm. And I think he could get off of the attempted murder charge by proving that he only had a Kel-tec .380. The most he should be charged with is attempted injury.

 

[Airman193SOS]

I am from PA, and I can state unequivocally for the record that this guy was a nut. Nevertheless, that doesn't answer your question.

PA does not have a ledger that exposes all those who have a CCW permit. They are done by county, so while each county has a record, PA as a whole does not.

In addition, there is a controversy about whether Philadelphia has the right to pass tougher gun laws than the rest of Pennsylvania. As of right now, they do not. Pennsylvania has preemption. Nevertheless, the Philadelphia City Council has passed tougher laws with the support of Governor Ed Rendell, and the situation is currently mired in the courts. It could turn out that Philadelphia can pass tougher laws. It remains to be seen.

Last, most theaters in PA are posted "no firearms". This does not have force of law, but to the average civilian (and local police officer) that does not matter. I don't know this theater's policy, but it is likely that such a posting exists, for what it's worth.

To reiterate, though, this guy was a nut"ter" (like the mayor of Philadelphia). OK, that wasn't much of a pun, but so be it.

 

[notorious]

Not much has gotten too much press lately, including that Santa killer who shot people and set fire to the house.

Maybe the MSM is too busy preparing for the upcoming coronation and jockeying for the best shot as the annointed one descends from the heavens to take the reigns over humanity?

 

[TRGRHPY]

c'mon, the guy was talking during the movie...what else was he supposed to do? Popcorn just doesn't have the same "punch" that it used to, and it's too expensive, anyway. Shooting him was the way to go (to jail at least).

 

[dmazur]

Why can't this be viewed as a rational reason for the victim to have been armed?

I know, it's not Dodge City or the old west and all...

However, isn't protection against a random nut-job one of the reasons for CCW?

What if the victim had been carrying? Would it have been a "good shoot" for him to have responded?

(I read a post recently that those of us who choose to CCW are generally a lot more careful to avoid situations which might require defensive action. So, using this argument, if the victim had been practicing this "conflict avoidance", he probably wouldn't have been talking in a theater in the first place... )

 

[7Star]

I guess I like to preach to the choir..but does anyone actually believe this unlicensed guy wouldn't have had his little pistol if there were tougher laws in Philly about where and how you may own a firearm??

Moral of the story: Keep you voice down while at the movies. When people pay...they like to hear..and apparently alot.

 

[WoofersInc]

I read this story on MSNBC.com. There is a section at the bottom of each story where people can discuss the story. This area is usually full of bleeding hearts. It was funny, they were all actually supporting this guy shooting someone just for talking in the theater. They were blaming the guy getting shot saying it was his fault for not being polite and respecting others.

 

[BADUNAME37]

I told my wife that the guy he shot should have been armed.

He was armed, that is where he got hit! LOL (sorry, couldn't resist).
My wife's opinion was that the guy shouldn't have been carrying in the first place.

It goes to show, when outlaws have guns, wait that is wrong.

If guns are outlawed in certain places, only the outlaws will carry guns into those places.

 

[dmazur]

It was funny, they were all actually supporting this guy shooting someone just for talking in the theater.

Like in the original "Fun With Dick & Jane", they hold up the phone company (in the '70s it was still a monopoly...) and everyone standing in line to pay their bills applauds.

Just because you want to shoot someone doesn't mean it is proper to do so. See the previous comments on CCW and temper being mutually exclusive.

 

[altitude_19]

I still haven't heard that the "victim" didn't make some sort of threatening gesture. I also haven't hear this "weapons charge" specified. Could it be that charge is merely discharging a firearm within city limits? It's possible his having the weapon isn't even in dispute. I HATE driveby media.

 

[FM12]

(shhhh)

 

[notorious]

As the wise sage William Bonny said in response to Sheriff Little Bill Daggett's exclamation that he shot an unarmed man, "Well... <grunt> he shoulda armed himself."

 

[BADUNAME37]

I agree,

If you have a bad temper, forget carrying!