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Please suggest a good WWII era rifle

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CarbineKid

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Jun 21, 2003
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I've decided to purchase a bolt action rifle from the WWII era. I will let you know that Im pretty clueless here. There are only a few things I am looking for. First and foremost is the quality and fit&finish of the rifle. I would love to find one in like NIB condition at a good price($400ish). Is that called unissued? Second I want to make sure ammo and accessories(bayonet etc) are in good supply. So any suggestions?
 
Have you looked at the CMP?
Definitely not "unissued" :rolleyes: , but very nice pieces of history, a bit dented (the wood), but fine shooting battlerifles. Sometimes buyers do receive rebuilds that look like they just rolled off the line, but it's luck of the draw...
http://www.odcmp.com/Services/Rifles/m1903.htm

$400 for the M1903. These were used early in the war prior to greater availability of the Garand. Then the 03A3 came along, plus 03 versions for snipers.

Some history:
http://www.labradorman.com/Guns/M1903A3_SPRINGFIELD.htm

M2 Ball, 30-06, is readily available at shops, gun shows, plus from the CMP.
Lots of accessories around, incl. bayos.
 
Mosin Nagant. Finn M39. Can be had at www.gunsnammo.com for well under $400 in unissued condition. Inexpensive plinker ammo (like Wolf) is plentiful. Slings are readily available, real bayo's are like hens teeth (although Interordnance sells a quality repro bayo). Very accurate. Do a search for M39 and read the rave reviews. ;)

American WWII rifles are not going to be cheap (we're IN America, eh?). M1 Garands, M1 Carbines, 1903's, etc., are all going to command a premium simply because they're American. They're great weapons, but they're also much more in demand. You can get an M1 Garand for $400, but you're talking shooter grade (functions, but not too pretty). The Garand's a must-have in my book, however.

For $400, you can buy a really nice Lee-Enfield. I believe the latest model is the No. 4 Mk. II, and there are some out there that are truly unissued (wrapped in cosmoline). Accessories are plentiful, but ammo is not as available as the Mosin's (7.62x54R for the MN, .303 Brit for the LE).

You can also buy one of the Russian Capture German Mausers from www.empirearms.com. They've been refinished by the Russians, so they look pretty nice. Dennis handpicked the best ones. 8mm ammo is also very cheap and available.

You also might look into applying for a Curio & Relics license. That way, you'd save on transfer fees each purchase, and rifles can be sent directly to your house. Beware, it's an addiction.
 
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for the price you are willing to spend, you won't find anything in that condition. basically there is nothing from WWII that is 'unissued'. post war productions of the yugo m48 and m48a mausers is about the only thing that fits your wish list. a good rifle, with all accessories, and cheap to shoot. has no real collector value as there is a lot of them out there, but its a good buy.

k98 mausers captured during the war and the germans subsequent surrender, are great pieces of history, and depending on the condition, can be very economical.
 
I think if you want a real WWII gun you should get a M1 type rifle or a German K98 or something. There are other guns of the time that are nice but weren't really used extensively in the war. Depends on what you're going for.
 
Like others have said, NIB WWII guns don't exist. If you do find one, expect to pay about as much as a cheap car for one. There was some talk a while back of NIW M1's being found by CMP, with expected pricing of around $5000.

If you just want a WWII rifle that is pretty much new, and you don't care if it has been refinished, try: http://www.miltecharms.com/ They have some nice looking guns, but again, more than you want to spend.

CMP would be your best bet for American weapons, best price and quality. At your price range, you should be able to get an M1, a 1903 or a 1917. They won't be NIB, but you can get a good one.
 
I'd also recommend the Finnish Mod 39. I have one made in 1941, is a fantastic shooter, ammo is cheap, very reliable.

rk
 
From what you describe looking for, you might consider the "Ministry of Defense" 91/30 Mosin Nagant rifles from Empire Arms:
http://www.empirearms.com/
They are listed as "arsenal-refurbished to AS NEW condition", around $200, ammo's cheap and plentiful, and they are as authentic WWII rifles as you can find.
 
Last year I bought an M1 from CMP and was very pleased - pristine bore, just enough dents on the stock to add character, and function is perfect so far. Not as pretty as the "new" Springfield Armory Inc. M1 rifles, but considering the CMP was the source I'm confident the entire rifle is genuinely "mil spec" and it was half the price of the commercial copy.

When I looked at the CMP website, I saw they had bolt action Springfields for decent prices. The CMP website indicated that these had all been rebuilt at some time (by a U.S. military arsenal) and most appeared to have been put away unfired after the rebuild. So, IMHO, there's an excellent likelihood you'll get a good shooter if you go this route.

It's not likely to look brand new, but is likely to be as good as you're going to get on your budget. And the .30/06 ammo it uses is available EVERYWHERE from the CMP to the local Wal-Mart. (Can't say the same about feeding the Mosin.)
 
I bought two CMP Garands in the last year -- a collector grade and a service grade.

The collector grade is a Korean War vintage Springfield Armory rifle. It is pristine and looks unissued (other than the cosmoline). I paid about $1,400 for it.

The service grade turned out to be a WWII vintage Springfield. Price was around $500. The serial number books to June 1944 production, and the barrel (also a Springfield) is dated May 1944, so it's probably original to the receiver. All of the parts are correct for a mid-44 SA with the exception of the stock, which is obviously a replacement. It's marked RRA, which stands for Red River Armory in Texas, where the rifle was apparently rebuilt at some point. That's the only part on it that is obviously a replacement.

I've fired my WWII Garand, and she's a sweet shooter. The stock is non-original and a little ugly, but I don't care. This rifle has history. It very likely saw combat in WWII and/or Korea. Some GI depended on it. I'd sell my pristine "collector" grade in a heartbeat before I'd part with my pedestrian "service" grade rifle.

If you don't have a Garand, already, then you need to get one. Get the cheapest one CMP sells, if money is an issue. If it doesn't shoot well enough for you, the barrel can always be replaced later. In the meantime, you get to own and shoot "the greatest battle implement ever devised."
 
Fellows, the original poster specifically asked about bolt action rifles.
 
Hmm the Finn M39 looks promiseing. Its reasonable and in great condition. Its a real shame that these rifles(WWII era) are no longer made. I really believe a current production/updated WWII bolt action rifle would sell very well.
 
Old guns have one thing modern guns don't, that's history. You don't get that in a modern gun. Wish you were close by, we'd go out and shoot mine. Of the few bolt WWI/II bolt actions I have the Mod 39 for me is my best shooter. Action is like glass, trigger breaks clean at about 5 lbs, sights are easy, just a fine example of a WWII period bolt action. And the Finns didn't take shortcuts when it came to manufacturing their rifles. They knew and appreciated the value of a true marksman with a high powered rifle in defense of their country.

rk
 
The Russian milsurps are going to be one of the cheapest deals around. If you have a Big 5 Sporting Goods store in your area, yuo will find different models of them advertised on sale almost every week for around $80. The typical ones are the model 91/30, the M38 and M44. They all use 7.62x54R ammo and that is cheap and widely available. The 91/30 should come with a decent bayonet and the M44 has a folding bayonet attached.

Big 5 also has Lee Enfileds on occasion and you may even find Yugoslavian M48 Mausers.

A "Mitchells Mausers" M48 may be a good choice. These rifles are very nice looking and come with accessories like a sling, ammo pouches, bayonet and scabbard. http://www.mitchellsales.com/rifles/hist_m48/index.htm

The CMP has some excellent examples of the M1903 Springfield and the Remington M1903A3 rifles for $420.95 delivered to your door. I bought an M1903A3 in the fall and it had been refurbished to the point of having a barrel that appeared to be brand new. All I had to do was clean off the cosmoline and refinish the stock.
 
For $400, go to BDL Ltd. and pick the Enfield of your choice. His guns are in as-described condition, and is a heck of a guy to deal with. He can also get you any accessories you want (bayonet, proper for the model and year of the rifle, cleaning kits, breech covers, etc).
 
There's a guy on gunboards trying to sell what it claims is probably and unissued 1903A3 for $995. Given the priceline you set I would join the choir and recommend a M39.
 
I'd start with a 91/30 or M38 Mosin Nagant.
Another is the M95 Steyr Mannlicher- though ammo isn't the easiest to find, these rifles are usually in grreat shape and sell for less than $100.

A Savage No4 MK1 enfield would have an interesting history and can be had for less than $200, and is a really nice rifle.

Russian Capture K98s sell for around $200.
 
O.k., o.k. Bolt action only, WWII era, and under $500. I think the best choices with those criteria are clear: either an Enfield No. 5 Jungle Carbine (.303 British) or a Swedish Mauser (model 96 or 38, both in 6.5x55).

The Enfield is a fairly compact, handy rifle, and would be my first choice for a hunting and all around rifle. The Swede Mauser is longer and heavier, but is finely made and capable of outstanding accuracy. The 6.5x55 in particular has a reputation as being an inherently accurate cartridge. The Swede Mauser would be my first choice for target shooting.

Both the .303 and the 6.5x55 are hard hitting cartridges, very close to the .308 Winchester in ballistics. They can be used to take any game in North America.

Enfield No. 5 Jungle Carbines are pretty common at gun shows and gun stores. Lots of them were imported in the 60s and 70s. A good example will typically sell for $300-400.

Swedish Mausers are a little harder to find, but not too bad. They sell in the same price range. A good place for Swedish Mausers is Kebco, LLC (http://www.kebcollc.com). The owner travels to Sweden frequently to buy firearms and parts for resale in the U.S. You can get on his mailing list, and he'll email you periodically with what's coming. He has a couple of 96s right now, and I'm sure could get a 38 for you pretty quickly. He also knows everything there is to know about Swedish Mausers, and will be happy to help guide you.
 
K31

Well, they won't be new in box. They've got history. But you might look at a Swiss Schmidt-Rubin K31. They have a reputation as good shooters. Even one with a beat-up stock is likely to have a great action, as the Swiss built 'em good, cleaned 'em right, and never used corrosive ammo. The stocks look pretty good with a little TLC. I think someone makes new, drop-in stocks for them also.

If you want to learn more about these fine machines, check out swissrifles.com.
 
K31 and M39

I have both. I've shot the K31 and it is SWEET. There is simply nothing like the straight pull action (heck, most people don't even know what that is), and the trigger is the best I've ever felt on a general issue military rifle. These are very finely engineered rifles, many of which were made well before the rush of war (i.e. better quality control). Also, many were made after the war (up to 1958, in fact, though only those 1954 and before are currently C&R qualified), when there was not only not a rush to produce them, but there had been a long learning curve in the manufacturing process. They are CHEAP - $80 gets you one through AIM if you've got a C&R, and not much more than about $125 in most other places. They are also extremely accurate, especially with good ammo. Better sights, like the aperture sights made by Mojo Sighting Systems (for a mere $65 or so) aid accuracy quite a bit without detracting from the authentic WW2 look like a scope would do. I'm going to buy another soon. I also have the Mojos, and they are excellent (and I bought another set for my M39).

I'll go out on a limb and state that the K-31 is not only the best buy in milsurps (accuracy and durability per dollar), but was the finest bolt-action military rifle ever mass-manufactured (YMMV). To buy a new K-31 now (if they were made, which ain't the case :( ) would probably cost in the neighborhood of $1,500 without glass. Compare/contrast to a Remington 700 at $500-$700, and you'll get an idea of the quality involved.

I've only shot my M39 very little, and while in a rush, and without the Mojo sights (which I installed last night). It is also a very well engineered rifle (the Finns took the Russkie receivers and junked everything else, installing excellent, free-floating barrels, pretty good sights, excellent triggers and their own, better, stocks - it is really a different rifle than the M91 series). If you're into it, many were made in 1941 and 1942, so they almost certainly saw combat against the Soviets. The M39s are, as mentioned, extremely accurate and shoot cheap ammo, all for about $200-$250.

As a rule, anything made by the Finns, Swedes or Swiss will be finely engineered, finely made, accurate and durable (though I have no personal experience with the Swedish Mausers). These nations were incredibly anal about accuracy and maintaining their independence while being on the same block as some very large and very nasty neighbors. The Finns were the only ones to actually see combat on a large scale, so their rifles are "battle-proven," FWIW. Personally, given what I've read about the Swiss and my own personal experience with the K-31, I think that they'd have done better against the same enemy (of course, they'd have faced the battle-hardened and well-led Wehrmacht instead of the inexperienced and nearly leaderless (until mid-war) Red Army, but that's reality intruding). In any case, the Swiss K-31 and its progenitor the M-1911 rifle in the hands of some 850,000 Swiss militia would've done some very serious damage to even the Wehrmacht. I suspect that an attack on Switzerland would've caused the war to end in 1944 - it would've been a drain on Germany like Spain was on Napoleon.
 
I'm a bit suprised there haven't been more K98 advocates here. It's hard to find a rifle more saturated with historical merit (in my opinion). American and British rifles have nothing to apologize for, but the Mausers come from a government which only existed for 12 years. They're also highly accurate and 7.92 mm ammunition is readily available.

If you have a C&R (and if you don't, I'd suggest getting one if WW2 small arms strike your fancy), you can get a Soviet-capture K98 with all the Waffen-eagle stamps for $210.
 
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