I have a son who has seizures. After these seizures he often walks around randomly and apparently unconscious. He is under treatment but probably will have seizures for his entire life. He once walked into a strangers apartment. The guy called the police who came, took him outside and stayed with him until he came around. Another time he was just walking down the street, naked. The police took him to the station, loaned him a pair of orange coveralls, had the emt look at him and took him home. There is very little likelyhood of him ever getting over this. He is very worried that someone is going to shoot him. I love guns, I like to have them around, we live in a rural area and occasionally have to shoot some varmint. I think responsible heads of families should be prepared to protect the household. I also really hope you don't shoot my son. He is by far not the only really decent person with a seizure disorder. I am not really asking a question. I feel that there is no real solution to this problem. Perhaps responsible gun owners will feel able to take a little more time to analize the situation than a guy with a baseball bat or a mother with a butcher knife.
Please think first
- Thread starter olafhardtB
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Wow, that's tough-you have my sympathies! I hope he always stays safe.
I also hope that everyone that has to face an intruder also has the presence of mind to determine whether the intruder really IS a threat! Stuff happens, you don't want to shoot some innocent just because they've wandered in by mistake. It happens.
Couple years ago a drunken college girl wandered into a house in Boulder, and was shot by the homeowner. Not a threat, just drunk and lost. At least he didn't shoot to kill, but she was seriously wounded and several lives were permanently altered.
I also hope that everyone that has to face an intruder also has the presence of mind to determine whether the intruder really IS a threat! Stuff happens, you don't want to shoot some innocent just because they've wandered in by mistake. It happens.
Couple years ago a drunken college girl wandered into a house in Boulder, and was shot by the homeowner. Not a threat, just drunk and lost. At least he didn't shoot to kill, but she was seriously wounded and several lives were permanently altered.
I admit to not having given that situation much thought, and I thank you for calling our attention to it. I would hope that all of us here are responsible enough to be sure that there is a real threat before using any serious or deadly force. Police are (or should be) trained to identify and deal with such a situation, and it appears that they have done so in the cases you mention.
But caregivers for an afflicted person also have a responsibility to do everything reasonably possible to prevent a tragedy. That would seem to include being pro-active and keeping the individual from getting into a situation he may not be able to deal with or where his actions could be misunderstood.
Jim
But caregivers for an afflicted person also have a responsibility to do everything reasonably possible to prevent a tragedy. That would seem to include being pro-active and keeping the individual from getting into a situation he may not be able to deal with or where his actions could be misunderstood.
Jim
My wife has seizures, as does a coworker of mine. When properly medicated, grand mal seizures are extremely rare. My wife does have petit mal seizures where it just looks like she's spaced out with a thousand yard stare.
Not to pry, but what meds is your son on? If he's having seizures and such extreme after effects, might want to get a med check. Even medical marijuana helps, depending on the type of seizure disorder and the area of the brain in seizure.
Not to pry, but what meds is your son on? If he's having seizures and such extreme after effects, might want to get a med check. Even medical marijuana helps, depending on the type of seizure disorder and the area of the brain in seizure.
Sorry to hear about your situation, i wish you luck.
As long as he's non-threatening it seems that it wouldn't be a problem.
However, if he's kicking down someone's door, it's going to be extremely difficult to tell the difference between him and a threat to your family's life. If he forces his way into someone's house, the distances are going to be close and the decision whether to shoot or not must be made almost immediately. I fear that the outcome would not be in your son's favor.
As long as he's non-threatening it seems that it wouldn't be a problem.
However, if he's kicking down someone's door, it's going to be extremely difficult to tell the difference between him and a threat to your family's life. If he forces his way into someone's house, the distances are going to be close and the decision whether to shoot or not must be made almost immediately. I fear that the outcome would not be in your son's favor.
Devonai
Member
Several years ago a lost and disoriented woman tried to open the slider door into my apartment. It was the middle of the night and I responded with my USP + tac light. It was not easy to shake the sleep from my head but I correctly assessed that she wasn't armed. She was trying awfully hard to open that door but the lock held.
If I'd forgotten to lock the door, I would have encountered her in my living room. Still, a 120 lumen flashlight in an otherwise dark room gave me a huge advantage. As it was, I called the resident state trooper. After he found her, he knocked on my door to ask me what happened. That was the end of it.
I went back to sleep almost immediately. I was happy with my response and immensely relieved I didn't have to shoot anyone that night.
If I'd forgotten to lock the door, I would have encountered her in my living room. Still, a 120 lumen flashlight in an otherwise dark room gave me a huge advantage. As it was, I called the resident state trooper. After he found her, he knocked on my door to ask me what happened. That was the end of it.
I went back to sleep almost immediately. I was happy with my response and immensely relieved I didn't have to shoot anyone that night.
Zaydok Allen
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I keep my vehicle and home locked pretty much all the time, and someone would have to very obviously be attacking me, a loved one, or be actively forcing their way in my door for me to open fire.
Sorry for your, and his situation. I hope cool heads prevail.
I assume you have notified the local police and your neighbors of his condition. If you haven't, you may want to do so and stopping by your neighbor's homes or writing up a letter to leave taped to their front door telling them what the issue is might be advisable. I don't like sharing personal medical info with anyone, but in this case, if you lived next door, I'd appreciate a heads up that I might find your boy incoherent or unclothed in my yard some time. Then I know he needs help and not a ride in a cop car.
It also might help those of us with an inclination to protect people to know that if we see anyone messing with him, or anyone over reacting to his behavior that isn't in the know, that we could step in and calm things down.
Just one more thought, and I realize it's a bit extreme, but if I had a condition like that, I would likely have a medical symbol tattooed on my hand, and a one or two sentence explanation on my wrist so if a cop finds me nude in park somewhere, they realize right away I'm not a nut or a drug addict. (not sure if he is old enough for that) Again, I'm not a fan of sharing personal info like that, but in this case it could possibly save your boy's life.
Good luck.
Sorry for your, and his situation. I hope cool heads prevail.
I assume you have notified the local police and your neighbors of his condition. If you haven't, you may want to do so and stopping by your neighbor's homes or writing up a letter to leave taped to their front door telling them what the issue is might be advisable. I don't like sharing personal medical info with anyone, but in this case, if you lived next door, I'd appreciate a heads up that I might find your boy incoherent or unclothed in my yard some time. Then I know he needs help and not a ride in a cop car.
It also might help those of us with an inclination to protect people to know that if we see anyone messing with him, or anyone over reacting to his behavior that isn't in the know, that we could step in and calm things down.
Just one more thought, and I realize it's a bit extreme, but if I had a condition like that, I would likely have a medical symbol tattooed on my hand, and a one or two sentence explanation on my wrist so if a cop finds me nude in park somewhere, they realize right away I'm not a nut or a drug addict. (not sure if he is old enough for that) Again, I'm not a fan of sharing personal info like that, but in this case it could possibly save your boy's life.
Good luck.
He is justified in his concerns. I don't know if it would help to brief the local law enforcement wherever he is about his medical condition to avoid a tragedy involving the police. That sort of notification to neighbors can be very difficult to make for many people, but it could be essential for his safety and their piece of mind.
It is tragic when people have these conditions that so dramatically interfere with their lives. They can't drive safely, jobs are difficult to hold down and their own personal safety is at risk.
Thanks for sharing on a difficult topic. It is an excellent reminder that acting "strangely" is not a reliable indicator of someone being a threat. People may be behaving in ways that puzzle you for all kinds of reasons, including medical reasons beyond their control. Being puzzled or confused or unsettled is not a reason to use force, much less lethal force.
Again, thanks, and best wishes for you and your son.
Again, thanks, and best wishes for you and your son.
danez71
Member
Best wishes to your family. That's a rough situation to have to deal with and his fear of being shot, I can imagine, is weighing very heavy on him.
Im always leery of sharing info but in this case I tend to agree with the others
Its nothing to be ashamed of and I see it as a case that can do more good than bad to share.
Thank you for sharing what you have. Its a great reminder that just because there is a castle doctrine law and someone enters your house, it doesn't mean that automatically shooting them is correct, right, or even remotely close to legal.
Im always leery of sharing info but in this case I tend to agree with the others
Its nothing to be ashamed of and I see it as a case that can do more good than bad to share.
Thank you for sharing what you have. Its a great reminder that just because there is a castle doctrine law and someone enters your house, it doesn't mean that automatically shooting them is correct, right, or even remotely close to legal.
Panzerschwein
member
This is a strong reason why it's a good idea to have a weapons light on all HD firearms. Positive target identification.
If people would just get into the habit of locking their doors, they wouldn't have to worry about random strangers wandering into their homes. There may be a tendency, if you have a gun, to get lax in your other security precautions. The gun should be the last line of defense, not the first line of defense.
I notice that modern homes being built today are very poorly designed from a security standpoint. For example, fashionable front doors have large glass panels, or they are flanked by large glass panels. Anyone could kick in that glass and be in your house in a second. You need to harden such obvious vulnerabilities.
I notice that modern homes being built today are very poorly designed from a security standpoint. For example, fashionable front doors have large glass panels, or they are flanked by large glass panels. Anyone could kick in that glass and be in your house in a second. You need to harden such obvious vulnerabilities.
Dr. Sandman
Member
That sounds kind of strange, to have problems like that, while under medical treatment. Are you sure that it is just a seizure disorder, and not seizures and something else? How often does this happen? Is he taking prescription medications? Is you son seeing a real doctor or seeking alternative care? Typically in the postictal state, the epileptic person is exhausted and does not want to (or can't) walk. There are rare cases, however, where the epileptic experiences a postictal psychosis. They basicly loose their mind and can act aggressive. If this happens, all bets are off. It is your responsibility to keep him out of harms way. I like the idea of a medical alert bracelet, and talking to neighbors and law enforcement. But, most of all, talk to your doctor if this keeps happening. With proper treatment these episodes should be non-existent to extremely rare.
Here in CA, we can't shoot someone just because they come into our home, there has to be some evidence the person has intent and the means to harm you. If he just comes in to take your tv, you might as well help him carry it out, because you sure can't shoot him. In many states you can apparently shoot someone coming into your home, but regardless of the law, I never want to shoot anybody unless there is a threat. Never say never, but the good news for you is that most people don't shoot precipitously.
Answers to questions
Yes my son regularly goes to an MD neurologist at a major and respected clinic. He takes the medicines prescribed and his are under pretty good control. He has moved in with me and his brother. This is one of those places where there is not much police presence. My son is 46 and has been under treatment since before kindergarten. His doctors have always been of high recommendation. He put himself through the university where he graduated with honors. He has established himself in two careers, high school science teacher and chemist. However, he no longer can handle dangerous chemicals or significant stress. I have read your posts and I will read every new reply to this thread. I really am greatful for your gracious concern. I think we have sort of a handle on this, it will be a cross we have to bear. I just wanted to call your attention to the fact that their are a fair amount of people out there who may act strange but don't need to be shot. Those of you who are instructors are invited to use this information in your classes. It is my ambition to see this as a sticky on all gun forums.
Yes my son regularly goes to an MD neurologist at a major and respected clinic. He takes the medicines prescribed and his are under pretty good control. He has moved in with me and his brother. This is one of those places where there is not much police presence. My son is 46 and has been under treatment since before kindergarten. His doctors have always been of high recommendation. He put himself through the university where he graduated with honors. He has established himself in two careers, high school science teacher and chemist. However, he no longer can handle dangerous chemicals or significant stress. I have read your posts and I will read every new reply to this thread. I really am greatful for your gracious concern. I think we have sort of a handle on this, it will be a cross we have to bear. I just wanted to call your attention to the fact that their are a fair amount of people out there who may act strange but don't need to be shot. Those of you who are instructors are invited to use this information in your classes. It is my ambition to see this as a sticky on all gun forums.
To the OP: My heart goes out to you.
Separately, I agree with the people who have posted that doors need to be kept locked. The OP did not mention anything about his son breaking windows to get into a house, it sounds like he just wanders around.
To anyone for whom keeping yourself and your family safe isn't enough of a good reason to keep your doors locked, maybe the knowledge that you could end up shooting a medically impaired but not dangerous person will be.
Separately, I agree with the people who have posted that doors need to be kept locked. The OP did not mention anything about his son breaking windows to get into a house, it sounds like he just wanders around.
To anyone for whom keeping yourself and your family safe isn't enough of a good reason to keep your doors locked, maybe the knowledge that you could end up shooting a medically impaired but not dangerous person will be.
I had a neighbor come home drunk at 2:00 AM a few years ago.
And try to break my front door down because his key didn't work in it!!
I had a .45 in my hand when I opened the door to see what all the commotion was about.
So yes.
Ask questions first, and shoot later!!
My wife has Alzheimer's, and wanders off down the street occasionally when I am busy doing other things like yard work, or laundry in the basement, and not keeping an eye on her.
So, I feel your pain.
It's tough.
Hang in there!!
rc
And try to break my front door down because his key didn't work in it!!
I had a .45 in my hand when I opened the door to see what all the commotion was about.
So yes.
Ask questions first, and shoot later!!
My wife has Alzheimer's, and wanders off down the street occasionally when I am busy doing other things like yard work, or laundry in the basement, and not keeping an eye on her.
So, I feel your pain.
It's tough.
Hang in there!!
rc
I thank you for sharing, another aspect to contemplate is in home service dogs. My wife and I live in a very rural area, for us, we would be introducing our German Shepherd to your brother in order for them to become familiar with each other. 
Thank you to the OP for sharing this, and drawing attention to situational awareness.
This is just one reason why I'm a firm believer in firearms training.. In this case, I'm not talking about range time.
Not long ago, my wife and I took a couple of pistol training classes at Badlands Tactical. One portion of the courses included UTM training which utilizes paint projectiles. You're placed into situations where you have to decide what to do. It's not always a "shoot or don't shoot" scenario.. Often, it's a "don't go into a gunfight" situation. One important thing that I left with concerns muzzling the world when I don't even know if there's a threat... I don't want to turn this into a rabbit hole, so I'll stop there.
I hope that others consider quality situational training. I used to think that I had it all down, but those classes were eye opening.
This is just one reason why I'm a firm believer in firearms training.. In this case, I'm not talking about range time.
Not long ago, my wife and I took a couple of pistol training classes at Badlands Tactical. One portion of the courses included UTM training which utilizes paint projectiles. You're placed into situations where you have to decide what to do. It's not always a "shoot or don't shoot" scenario.. Often, it's a "don't go into a gunfight" situation. One important thing that I left with concerns muzzling the world when I don't even know if there's a threat... I don't want to turn this into a rabbit hole, so I'll stop there.
I hope that others consider quality situational training. I used to think that I had it all down, but those classes were eye opening.
During the daytime I would have no trouble determining intent. My doors are always locked and I am always armed. At night it would be a different story especially if my door was being kicked in. I will look after me and my wife first in that situation. It would be a tragedy to kill someone with this problem. A bigger tragedy would be me or my wife dead because I stopped to play twenty questions.
This is an interesting subject, but please don't assume gun owners go around shooting poeple just because they act strange. I realize that is not your intent, but it sounds more like an anti-gun argument. In most all cases, there would likely have to be other factors involved for someone to shoot. It is a rough thing to have to worry about.
If your son was fully grown and walked into someone's home (naked or not), it would really depend on the circumstances. Almost anyone would be would be spooked by that and arm themselves. How far things went after that would depend a lot on how your son was acting. The problem is people might assume he was some druggie. Horror movies are not your friend.
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I was living in a neighborhood when the guy on the corner house had an incident. Unknown cause, he started putting the furniture out on the lawn and roaming the back yards knocking on doors. He was not coherent. He wasn't shot, either.
My wife is caring for an older woman now who requires 24/7 observation, and it's not getting better. And that is the key - a caretaker is there, 24/7. She's not allowed to get out, wander aimlessly, or etc.
There's the issue I have with the OP's post - if the seizures are that severe and there's no one to prevent his activities, then the concern is real enough - but what's being done to keep it from happening? On a day by day basis, how does someone stop him from walking out into traffic to stop trucks with his superpowers? I see no mention of preventing it if he's allowed to have unsupervised incidents.
Goes to a lack of appropriate care - I would then suggest if he got shot there would be questions of how he was allowed to be where he shouldn't be.
It's pretty clear he needs a safer environment to live in where unsupervised incidents are carefully prevented - not where they are risked.
I would also be careful how it's presented - and are there firearms in the home now which are accessible? They shouldn't be - as Adam Lanza has shown us. Nobody thought he was capable of his acts and there was no prevention there, either.
We are now in an atmosphere where we recognize that it's NOT the responsible armed owner who is the problem, it's those who won't take the appropriate steps in caring for those who can't make responsible decisions.
It's not an issue of us shooting him, but of his care being adequate to prevent it. The effort to mainstream those who aren't "normal" isn't working and we need to recognize it.
His care needs a serious elevation of oversight if the incidents mentioned are ongoing.
My wife is caring for an older woman now who requires 24/7 observation, and it's not getting better. And that is the key - a caretaker is there, 24/7. She's not allowed to get out, wander aimlessly, or etc.
There's the issue I have with the OP's post - if the seizures are that severe and there's no one to prevent his activities, then the concern is real enough - but what's being done to keep it from happening? On a day by day basis, how does someone stop him from walking out into traffic to stop trucks with his superpowers? I see no mention of preventing it if he's allowed to have unsupervised incidents.
Goes to a lack of appropriate care - I would then suggest if he got shot there would be questions of how he was allowed to be where he shouldn't be.
It's pretty clear he needs a safer environment to live in where unsupervised incidents are carefully prevented - not where they are risked.
I would also be careful how it's presented - and are there firearms in the home now which are accessible? They shouldn't be - as Adam Lanza has shown us. Nobody thought he was capable of his acts and there was no prevention there, either.
We are now in an atmosphere where we recognize that it's NOT the responsible armed owner who is the problem, it's those who won't take the appropriate steps in caring for those who can't make responsible decisions.
It's not an issue of us shooting him, but of his care being adequate to prevent it. The effort to mainstream those who aren't "normal" isn't working and we need to recognize it.
His care needs a serious elevation of oversight if the incidents mentioned are ongoing.
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